what is this and where it comes from

digenis · 5th April 2016, 06:51 PM

Does the blade have an edge on it? I reminds me somewhat of swords made for Masonic ceremonies ("light of the orient", etc). Some of these swords were made fairly well.

harrywagner · 5th April 2016, 07:49 PM

How thick is the blade? It seems an unusual shape. The flat slab style makes me wonder if it was intended as something other than a weapon.

Battara · 5th April 2016, 09:40 PM

A couple of other options:

1. a cut down kilij/pala

2. a marriage

Kubur · 5th April 2016, 09:52 PM

The problem it's the third one that I see.
Maybe early 20th for early tourists
or a kind of standard equipment, military?
Why a short blade? tourist suitcase, child, on boat???

Kubur · 5th April 2016, 10:05 PM

another

Helleri · 6th April 2016, 03:07 PM

I could be way off on this...But I think I am seeing between the pictures a pretty clear casting line (a seam from casting with a two part mold). It looks like all the low points have been painted black (or in other words antiqued). The engraving doesn't have the kind of marks that push etching/chasing creates. But the faded incomplete lines of the etching look like what you get from casting. And the blade looks like it is pretty much a flat bar of homogeneous steel. It really looks like a prop blade. The kind of thing that would be used in stage acting, low budget movies, and parades/festivals. Maybe even a training blade?

Kubur · 6th April 2016, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helleri

I could be way off on this...But I think I am seeing between the pictures a pretty clear casting line (a seam from casting with a two part mold). It looks like all the low points have been painted black (or in other words antiqued). The engraving doesn't have the kind of marks that push etching/chasing creates. But the faded incomplete lines of the etching look like what you get from casting. And the blade looks like it is pretty much a flat bar of homogeneous steel. It really looks like a prop blade. The kind of thing that would be used in stage acting, low budget movies, and parades/festivals. Maybe even a training blade?

I have no problem with the cast as a lot of Ottoman objects were casted, look at our thread on the palaskas. I' m more concern by the blade... It's a shame to not have any help from the big specialists on this forum...

mariusgmioc · 6th April 2016, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

another

To me, this one appears to be a purely decorative item I would hardly call a sword.

I might be wrong, but the blade appears to be made of flat sheet steel with some scandi grind to give it the appearance of an edge.

Also the angle between the hilt and the blade gives away a decorative poor immitation of a sword.

Now, after seeing this second example, I am pretty sure the first one is about the same. At first, the blade gave the appearance of a triangular (Shamshir-like) blade, but now I tend to believe is also plain sheet steel that might bend even if swung at an angle.

mariusgmioc · 6th April 2016, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

A couple of other options:

1. a cut down kilij/pala

2. a marriage

Definitely not a cut down Kilij/Pala as there is absolutely no trace of the characteristic T-shaped spine and fuller.

Now, after seeing the second example, I believe it is much more likely a marriage between an immitation of a blade (cut from sheet steel) and an immitation of a Saif hilt.

Kubur · 6th April 2016, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Two years ago, while travelling to Jordan, I was quite surprised to find the local market flooded with Indian Khanjars in Arabic style that all sellers tried to sell as locally made.

In Syria too!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

... so, it wouldn't come as a surprise to me if even the hilt would be Indian.

I don't think. Touristic yes, but probably old and made in Syria or Turkey, until someone prove me that I'm wrong...

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

PS: Still didn't manage to fing a good quality genuine Shibryia dagger.

You are not the only one

mariusgmioc · 6th April 2016, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

probably old and made in Syria or Turkey, until someone prove me that I'm wrong...

Define "OLD"

Cut from sheet steel made through industrial lamination would still qualify it for old?

PS: I would bet that you are older than any of the two blades in the photos you posted.

ariel · 6th April 2016, 10:58 PM

I saw quite a few of very similar ones on the walls in Arab restaurants.

ariel · 7th April 2016, 02:39 AM

Sorry. The computer decided on its own to duplicate my post :-(((

" Matrix" is taking over?

5th April 2016, 10:05 PM	#5
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	another Attached Images

5th April 2016, 06:51 PM	#1
digenis Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 48	Does the blade have an edge on it? I reminds me somewhat of swords made for Masonic ceremonies ("light of the orient", etc). Some of these swords were made fairly well.

5th April 2016, 07:49 PM	#2
harrywagner Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 373	How thick is the blade? It seems an unusual shape. The flat slab style makes me wonder if it was intended as something other than a weapon.

5th April 2016, 09:40 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,270	A couple of other options: 1. a cut down kilij/pala 2. a marriage

5th April 2016, 09:52 PM	#4
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	The problem it's the third one that I see. Maybe early 20th for early tourists or a kind of standard equipment, military? Why a short blade? tourist suitcase, child, on boat???

6th April 2016, 03:07 PM	#6
Helleri Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Chino, CA. Posts: 219	I could be way off on this...But I think I am seeing between the pictures a pretty clear casting line (a seam from casting with a two part mold). It looks like all the low points have been painted black (or in other words antiqued). The engraving doesn't have the kind of marks that push etching/chasing creates. But the faded incomplete lines of the etching look like what you get from casting. And the blade looks like it is pretty much a flat bar of homogeneous steel. It really looks like a prop blade. The kind of thing that would be used in stage acting, low budget movies, and parades/festivals. Maybe even a training blade?

6th April 2016, 10:58 PM	#12
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I saw quite a few of very similar ones on the walls in Arab restaurants.

7th April 2016, 02:39 AM	#13
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Sorry. The computer decided on its own to duplicate my post :-((( " Matrix" is taking over?