Tulwar, help with dating and translation

Jim McDougall · 4th April 2016, 05:18 PM

As Jens has well noted, it is very hard to apply a distinct hilt pattern to Talpur use, just as with Sikhs, Rajputs etc. and particularly by region.
The images in the article illustrate some of the spectrum of hilt types which were apparently associated in these cases.

Here I would note that in a number of cases I have seen there are tulwars with this knuckleguard hilt which MAY have been attributed to Talpur use through association with this very article.
This is the kind of broad assumption which can often occur with simple example/image association from references and articles without further corroboration.

In my opinion, the 'open' hilt (without guard) seems more likely (as Jens has noted) for the Talpur use in this context, as I personally regard the open hilt as more of a 'court' or dress sword, which would seem more in place with these apparent presentation blades.

In this example discussed, as Ariel observed, the application of the material securing the blade is not consistent with methods of most earlier joinings, and I am inclined to agree this is a more modern instance
I recall the anecdote as well about hilts and blades being stored in separate locations to deter the acquisition of whole weapons in insurgences, but think personally it has more to do with arsenals use of imported hilts in refurbishing blades. This is the very reason it is so difficult to establish regionality in tulwar forms.

Ibrahiim, excellent book on Sir Richard Burton you note!!! and most pertinent in the case of this sword for further research.

Gernot, whatever the case may be with the present mounts on this sword, the blade on this sword is remarkably connected to the Talpurs, and the article and book Ibrahiim has noted would be excellent sources for your continued research.
Thank you again for sharing it here!!!

Jens Nordlunde · 4th April 2016, 09:45 PM

The Talpur family were known for collecting blades of a very high quality - and I dont think that this blade belongs to this catogary.
So inscription or not, I dont think this blade can have been part of the Talpur armoury. A later inscription - maybe - to give the sword more value -who knows.

GePi · 5th April 2016, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Jim, Thank you for the fine article in itself a great research document and as I was looking at Sir Richard Burton I noted Sindh Revisited: A Journey in the Footsteps of Captain Sir ...1842 -1849.

Hello Ibrahiim,
I have overlooked you post before, thank you for the book hint, I already nabbed a cheap copy and can't wait to dig into it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

The Talpur family were known for collecting blades of a very high quality - and I dont think that this blade belongs to this catogary.
So inscription or not, I dont think this blade can have been part of the Talpur armoury. A later inscription - maybe - to give the sword more value -who knows.

Yes, this sword strikes me as more a fighting sword, and although I like the hilt, wherever it originally belongs, the koftgari is not of the highest quality compared to a lot of other examples I have seen so far.
And of course you can never discount the possibility of later added "upgrades" to a sword blade, but as you said, who knows.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Gernot, whatever the case may be with the present mounts on this sword, the blade on this sword is remarkably connected to the Talpurs, and the article and book Ibrahiim has noted would be excellent sources for your continued research.
Thank you again for sharing it here!!!

You're welcome. When I bought the sword, I just picked it up for aesthetic reasons and didn't expect it to be historically significant at all, so whatever the authenticity of its parts or assembly are, I'm very happy with it.

One question, is there a way to quote multiple posts without a lot of copy-pasting? If there is, I cannot find it.

Cheers.

4th April 2016, 05:18 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	As Jens has well noted, it is very hard to apply a distinct hilt pattern to Talpur use, just as with Sikhs, Rajputs etc. and particularly by region. The images in the article illustrate some of the spectrum of hilt types which were apparently associated in these cases. Here I would note that in a number of cases I have seen there are tulwars with this knuckleguard hilt which MAY have been attributed to Talpur use through association with this very article. This is the kind of broad assumption which can often occur with simple example/image association from references and articles without further corroboration. In my opinion, the 'open' hilt (without guard) seems more likely (as Jens has noted) for the Talpur use in this context, as I personally regard the open hilt as more of a 'court' or dress sword, which would seem more in place with these apparent presentation blades. In this example discussed, as Ariel observed, the application of the material securing the blade is not consistent with methods of most earlier joinings, and I am inclined to agree this is a more modern instance I recall the anecdote as well about hilts and blades being stored in separate locations to deter the acquisition of whole weapons in insurgences, but think personally it has more to do with arsenals use of imported hilts in refurbishing blades. This is the very reason it is so difficult to establish regionality in tulwar forms. Ibrahiim, excellent book on Sir Richard Burton you note!!! and most pertinent in the case of this sword for further research. Gernot, whatever the case may be with the present mounts on this sword, the blade on this sword is remarkably connected to the Talpurs, and the article and book Ibrahiim has noted would be excellent sources for your continued research. Thank you again for sharing it here!!!

4th April 2016, 09:45 PM	#2
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	The Talpur family were known for collecting blades of a very high quality - and I dont think that this blade belongs to this catogary. So inscription or not, I dont think this blade can have been part of the Talpur armoury. A later inscription - maybe - to give the sword more value -who knows.