Estoc sword of type XVII ?

Roland_M · 4th April 2016, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerjak

Hi Roland,

Many thank for your comment.
Do you know other riding swords with similar simple cross guard ?

Best

Cerjak

Hi Cerjak,

until now i only found this sword from 1547. I am sure, that an Estoc has no groove in the middle.

Your example of the ridingsword is quite unusual.

Can you check the weight please? The ridingsword weighs around 1450-1650 Gramm. The quality and value of a ridingsword is normally much higher than an Estoc.

I can see four possibilities:
1: a riding sword
2: a very early rapier
3: a symbol of authority (like the sword below)
4: a composite piece (improbable)

Best wishes,
Roland

Cerjak · 4th April 2016, 08:16 PM

HI Andrea

This sword is about 1260 gr.
Also the point of balance is 10 cm from the cross.
This sword is very well balanced Cornelistromp who had it once in hands could confirm it.

Best

Cerjak

Roland_M · 5th April 2016, 07:27 AM

Hi Cerjak,

with a weight of 1260 Gramm, a blade length of 109 cm and the balance point you described, i would classify it as an early rapier.

The rapier is a further development of the longsword, the so called "hand and a half sword".

Roland

Cerjak · 28th May 2016, 04:03 PM

This sword in the metropolitan Museum has the same type of cross guard.
Of course the geometry of the blade is different but I believe that the 2 swords are from same the period and origin.
http://www.metmuseum.org/art/collect...t=sword&pos=33
Any comment on it will be welcome.
Best
CERJAK

Cerjak · 11th January 2018, 02:16 PM

an example with same type of pommel and blade geometry said to be Circa 1490

Foxbat · 11th January 2018, 03:58 PM

Even though I agree with Roland that the typical estoc blade was triangular or square/diamond shape, I have seen estocs with fullers. Less common, yes.

Considering the rather long dimension, I would be inclined to put this nice sword in the same group - by application - as the more traditional estocs.

Victrix · 11th January 2018, 04:38 PM

I think it is a Reiterschwert with that blade length and width, and with the fuller reaching all the way down to tbe tip. The quillons and tbe pommel indicate this sword was made for fencing. Are the edges of the blade sharpened for cutting with? As far as I’m aware, estoc blades tend to be longer and thinner with very sharp and solid (fuller, if any, ends higher up the blade to increase strength) tips. They are made for thrust rather than cut. The steel had to be especially hardened for their purpose.

Victrix · 15th January 2018, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerjak

an example with same type of pommel and blade geometry said to be Circa 1490

Nice room, Cerjak. I especially love the halberd rack.

Cerjak · 15th January 2018, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victrix

Nice room, Cerjak. I especially love the halberd rack.

Hi Vitrix
This room is not my room but only some pictures I found on a similar sword

28th May 2016, 04:03 PM	#4
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	This sword in the metropolitan Museum has the same type of cross guard. Of course the geometry of the blade is different but I believe that the 2 swords are from same the period and origin. http://www.metmuseum.org/art/collect...t=sword&pos=33 Any comment on it will be welcome. Best CERJAK Attached Images

11th January 2018, 02:16 PM	#5
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	an example with same type of pommel and blade an example with same type of pommel and blade geometry said to be Circa 1490 Attached Images

4th April 2016, 08:16 PM	#2
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	HI Andrea This sword is about 1260 gr. Also the point of balance is 10 cm from the cross. This sword is very well balanced Cornelistromp who had it once in hands could confirm it. Best Cerjak

5th April 2016, 07:27 AM	#3
Roland_M Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Germany Posts: 525	Hi Cerjak, with a weight of 1260 Gramm, a blade length of 109 cm and the balance point you described, i would classify it as an early rapier. The rapier is a further development of the longsword, the so called "hand and a half sword". Roland

11th January 2018, 03:58 PM	#6
Foxbat Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 69	Even though I agree with Roland that the typical estoc blade was triangular or square/diamond shape, I have seen estocs with fullers. Less common, yes. Considering the rather long dimension, I would be inclined to put this nice sword in the same group - by application - as the more traditional estocs.

11th January 2018, 04:38 PM	#7
Victrix Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sweden Posts: 755	I think it is a Reiterschwert with that blade length and width, and with the fuller reaching all the way down to tbe tip. The quillons and tbe pommel indicate this sword was made for fencing. Are the edges of the blade sharpened for cutting with? As far as I’m aware, estoc blades tend to be longer and thinner with very sharp and solid (fuller, if any, ends higher up the blade to increase strength) tips. They are made for thrust rather than cut. The steel had to be especially hardened for their purpose.