Moukhalla

[rickystl]

Hi RDGAC.
Congrats on your new purchase. And thanks for the photos and descriptions. I enjoyed reading your text. Maybe I can add to the conversation here.
Your gun indeed appears to be a Moroccan Altit long gun from the Little Atlas Mountains Region. Could be anywhere from the 1st to 3rd Quarter of the 19th Century. (where as Blue Lander's gun appears to be an Afedali from the Sous Valley Region with a replacement lock from another gun).
The lock on your gun was made on the English pattern, which seem the most common on Altit guns. The lock on Blue Lander's gun is the Dutch pattern, and is common on Afedali guns, but I've seen both patterns used on Afedali styles.
About these Snaphaunce locks: Having spent a few years working and having these locks repaired, the weak part is the sear to hammer slot engagement. The sears and tumblers on all these locks I've examined were simply not hardened. The sear would wear down short. The locks must have been in a constant state of maintenence and repair. The only way to repair this in most cases is to add metal to the end of the sear and file to fit, then flame harden the finished sear. Or make a new sear. While I'm at it, I'll have the tumbler hardened also. This makes the lock work much better.

Yes, the English style lock on your's does look like it may have been a latter replacement. The lock plate screws on these guns often extend out past the lockplate, but the screws on your's does seem to the extreme. By the way, are there only two lock plate screws on your gun? Can't quite tell from the photos. There should be three.

I'll post some photos of these locks below.

Rick.

[rickystl]

Here is an original Moroccan snaphaunce lock done in the English pattern. It is in un-used condition with a replaced top screw I had made that was missing.
Rick

[rickystl]

Here is an Original Moroccan snaphaunce lock done in the Dutch pattern. It has been used but is complete and working.
Rick.

[rickystl]

And here is an exact duplicate of an original English snaphaunce lock, copied from a rare surviving original English made long gun from the early to mid 1600's. There are suddle differences in the European made locks and the Moroccan copies. Note the swinging safety arm. The lockplate is wider to more easily accomodate the stock in converting an English matchlock to a snaphaunce. Where the narrower plate on the Morrocan locks would accomodate their narrow stocked guns.

Hopefully, the Moderator will allow the use of this replica in this case for comparative purposes? Thank you.

Rick.

[blue lander]

Thanks everyone, I'm learning a lot from this thread. I'm still a little confused how the sear is supposed to engage the cock. I don't understand what "force" is supposed to push the sear out into the cock when you pull it back.

Here's a closeup of the sear from mine. It appears to be bent?

[rickystl]

Hi Blue Lander.

It's a bit hard to describe - in writing - how the sear action functions in these snaphaunce locks, but I'll give it a try LOL : The sear arm is in constant tension against the inside of the hammer. This is accomplished with the small V-Spring located between the sear and the inside of the lockplate. See photos below. So when the hammer is pulled back to the cock position, the sear pops out of the hole in the lockplate just slightly to engage the angled slot on the inside of the hammer. At the same time, the trigger bar will move slightly rearward. Once the trigger bar is pulled backward, it will cause the sear bar to return to it's original position and release the hammer. Hope this helps.

I can't really tell by your photo, but it appears your sear spring might be missing (?).

Most of these locks you encounter will have the sear worn down. You will also find tumblers worn fron the stress of the mainspring. This is because the sears and tumblers were never tempered/hardened. I can picture these guns being fired only two-three dozen times and already need a sear adjustment.
Hope this helps. Rick

[blue lander]

That's a very clear explanation, thank you. You're right, mine is missing the sear spring. It has the trigger spring, though. Hopefully it'll be an easy piece to replace.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by rickystl

And here is an exact duplicate of an original English snaphaunce lock, copied from a rare surviving original English made long gun from the early to mid 1600's. There are suddle differences in the European made locks and the Moroccan copies. Note the swinging safety arm. The lockplate is wider to more easily accomodate the stock in converting an English matchlock to a snaphaunce. Where the narrower plate on the Morrocan locks would accomodate their narrow stocked guns.

Hopefully, the Moderator will allow the use of this replica in this case for comparative purposes? Thank you.

Rick.

Rick, what is the story behind this replica snaphaunce lock, who made it, fantastic work.

[blue lander]

This doesn't fill me with confidence about the strength of the metal used in this lock, but I was able to bend the sear tail enough to almost straighten it out. I need to bend it a bit more, but it's enough to make the lock engage.

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by estcrh

Rick, what is the story behind this replica snaphaunce lock, who made it, fantastic work.

Hi Estcrh.
The replica was made by The Rifle Shoppe, in Jones, OK. Except for the springs and screws, the lock parts are exact castings made from an original lock. Eventually, I'll have a gun made utilizing this lock. They offer a number of early locks for guns.

Rick

[RDGAC]

Hi folks,

First, thanks for the compliments; she's a nice old thing, albeit far and away the oddest single gun in my little set so far.

Second, re: locks: I can well believe that these things aren't heat treated; however, I'd be interested to see what the workmanship of the highest-quality North African locks was like. I know that one of my jezails has a native-made lock, and it too appears to be largely devoid of any heat treatment (or if there was any, it wasn't done very well), but my other two both have British locks in them, which unfortunately doesn't make for a good basis of comparison.

Below are some more detailed piccies of my lock. There's still a fair bit of rust on, as you can see, but the worse is gone and the lock can move, albeit a little slowly. The pan shows evidence of quite significant erosion, but whether this is by localised corrosion or the deleterious effects of powder burning nearby I don't know.

Oh, and rickstl: Mine appears to have been made with holes for three screws but attached to a gun with only two holes drilled in the stock. There's no evidence that I've spotted that there ever was a third, central, hole.