A riddle just for fun and learning

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by ariel

OK, the steam is definitely out, and no new suggestions have been posted.
Time for an answer.

Ian is absolutely correct: both are secondary products of broken standard blades.
Both come from Georgia.
In that part of the world wars were an uninterrupted chain of events. Weapons were consumed rapidly, and there was no sufficient capacity to renew their supply. People had to rely on "re-purposing" broken parts, blades in particular.

The upper one is Khevsurian Dashna. Pay attention to the blade: typical Khevsurian low quality job, and pretty old and worn to boot. The word "dashna" was mentioned in the Georgian dictionary of Sulhan Saba Orbeliani in the 17th century.
Classical examples had kindjal-like handles and plenty of brass on the handle and the scabbard.
The one I show is a much later example, mid 20 century: D-guard, handle materials.

Believe it or not, those were in active use even then, despite all the restrictions imposed by the Soviet regime. Khevsurs never paid much attention to any government:-)

The second one ( quaddara-like) is even more interesting.
I got information about it from Vakhtang Kiziria, a Georgian researcher, who wrote several articles about these short improvised weapons.
He consulted with 2 more Georgian weapons researchers and...

This is a weapon that originated in Eastern Georgia, Kakheti, and is locally known as Sabarkali.They were known there since the end of the 18th century till ~ 1820 ( when the Russians came). After that , beginning ~1850 they penetrated to the neighboring Armenia and Azerbaijan, where they were called Quaddara and widely used in the religious ceremonies of Ashura. Azeris expanded its presence to Persia.

My example has a village-made Georgian palash blade of unexpectedly high quality: no caverns at all and in more than 20 years since I got it, I did not oil it even once, and there is not a trace of rust, just thin beautiful patina. Ian was astute: the fuller goes ~2.5 inches inside the handle, indicating that the current blade is just a remainder of a broken old one. Taking into account chronology of Sabarkali ( beginning of 19th century at the latest), the blade must be even older.

Hope it was interesting and useful at least for somebody:-)

Salaams Ariel...Do I not get a consolation prize for guessing Georgia?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi,.

[ariel]

Ibrahiim and Ian: Gold medals for both of you:-)))))

[Jim McDougall]

Ariel, I think you deserve a gold medal as well!!
That write up and clearly explained post you placed on these was excellent! and it is great to have that kind of detail to better understand the esoterica of these forms.
Thank you.

[machinist]

A lovely write-up on the dashna is here http://www.academia.edu/1917231/Khevsuruli_dashna

[ariel]

Thanks for pointing out his site. I was not aware of it.

Yes, this is the same Vakhtang Kiziria who opened our collective eyes to these weapons. My short description is a very, very pale rendition of his outstanding work.
I would strongly recommend getting his papers from the site mentioned by Machinist.
I am getting his papers on Laz Bichagi.
His paper with Bakradze about West Georgian sabers is a masterpiece.
IMHO, in the field of Georgian Weapons he is an equivalent of Elgood .

[Ian]

Ariel:

I think we should try to archive here as much as possible of the material on Georgian weapons as there does not appear to be another web site that has a broad perspective on these.

Ian.

[ariel]

I agree.
And, in addition to that, I would also strongly recommend a new book by Kirill Rivkin on Caucasian weapons. The best one available !
It is available on Amazon.