19th Century Omani Khanjar?

A.alnakkas · 16th March 2016, 03:57 AM

a nice piece! :-)

This is Saudi, and from the later half of the 20th century. Although its not too old, its authentic and very well made. The maker is Mohammed AbdulMajid alBin Eissa of alHasa region. He is still alive today but has health issues. Unless you can take clearer photos of the inscription, and it shows that the father made it, then that would make it older but no older than early 20th century.

This type of dagger is called Dojani after the name of another AlHasa maker ( and attributed often to Oman when in fact it is not) These are predominantly made in Alhasa, where the style evolved into the highly curved one to suit the southern Arab taste who in turn named this style "Dojani" after one of its most famous makers, Hussain alDajani.

There are plenty of other Eastern Saudi (Alhasa and Hafouf) makers and some moved to Oman and UAE where their descendants still work in this field and related items.

The style was copied by various southern Saudi makers from Khamis Mushait, Najran and other southern cities. Makers such as Ibn Shuwail, Alhawashi and alMarri amongst others who I'll mention in an article soon.

BANDOOK · 16th March 2016, 10:06 AM

that's amazing knowledge and information,A alnakkas,cheers

harrywagner · 16th March 2016, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

is Saudi, and from the later half of the 20th century. Although its not too old, its authentic and very well made. The maker is Mohammed AbdulMajid alBin Eissa of alHasa region. He is still alive today but has health issues. Unless you can take clearer photos of the inscription, and it shows that the father made it, then that would make it older but no older than early 20th century.
.

Thanks! I am surprised. The seller never mentioned the item's age, but it sure looks like an antique to my untrained eye. I will ask the seller when he bought it. Thanks again!

harrywagner · 16th March 2016, 03:49 PM

Sorry, but I am not buying that this is late 20th. No way. It is at least late 19th or first half 20th. I have asked the seller when they bought it, but our lack of a common language is a problem. His English is only slightly better than my poor French, so a clear understanding of when this actually was is still a "work in progress". I "think" what he is telling me is that his Father bought it between 1940 and 1950. Remember that the French had a big presence in the ME at that time.

I think this is late 19th or early to mid 20th, and until I am convinced otherwise I will be "sticking to my guns".

Harry

kahnjar1 · 16th March 2016, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harrywagner

Sorry, but I am not buying that this is late 20th. No way. It is at least late 19th or first half 20th. I have asked the seller when they bought it, but our lack of a common language is a problem. His English is only slightly better than my poor French, so a clear understanding of when this actually was is still a "work in progress". I "think" what he is telling me is that his Father bought it between 1940 and 1950. Remember that the French had a big presence in the ME at that time.

I think this is late 19th or early to mid 20th, and until I am convinced otherwise I will be "sticking to my guns".

Harry

If you read Lofty's first Para carefully you will see that he says that "if the father made it" then it would be earlier. Perhaps if you posted, as he suggests, a clearer pic of the inscription then things can be further clarified.
Also bear in mind that the second half of the 20th c is from 1950 onwards, which could possibly mean that the Khanjar is 66 years old at least.
As has been discussed elsewhere many times, it is difficult to accurately age these items as they were not made in a factory, so no actual records exist. The only possibility is to have WATERTIGHT provenance or at least a VALID makers mark/signature.
I personally do not doubt Lofty's dating, as he and others of this Forum who actually live in the ME, have done much research on weapons of that region.
Stu

kronckew · 16th March 2016, 08:43 PM

i've been to al hasa back in the early 1980's with some friends, scenery was interesting tho mostly shades of brown. interesting 'caves' & fissures in the al qara mountain and an ancient old man still making clay pots, jugs, etc from the local clay. nice old souks, i remember a bunch of copper/brass artisans tapping away making bowls, trays, coffee/tea pots etc. in front of their shops. i gather it's been 'modernised' quite a bit, shopping malls, etc. now. was a nice, tho warm, day trip down from dhahran for the wives and kids.

estcrh · 17th March 2016, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harrywagner

Sorry, but I am not buying that this is late 20th. No way. It is at least late 19th or first half 20th.............................................. ..........I think this is late 19th or early to mid 20th, and until I am convinced otherwise I will be "sticking to my guns".

Harry

Harry, do not under estimate how worn an item can look when used daily in a desert environment. I have noticed this with many Arabian jambiya I have seen, they look worn and well used but I know that they probably not nearly as old as they appear. You have a very nice, complete set, it is possible that the belt is older and was reused, who knows.

harrywagner · 16th March 2016, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

a nice piece! :-)

This is Saudi, and from the later half of the 20th century. Although its not too old, its authentic and very well made. The maker is Mohammed AbdulMajid alBin Eissa of alHasa region. He is still alive today but has health issues. Unless you can take clearer photos of the inscription, and it shows that the father made it, then that would make it older but no older than early 20th century.

This type of dagger is called Dojani after the name of another AlHasa maker ( and attributed often to Oman when in fact it is not) These are predominantly made in Alhasa, where the style evolved into the highly curved one to suit the southern Arab taste who in turn named this style "Dojani" after one of its most famous makers, Hussain alDajani.

There are plenty of other Eastern Saudi (Alhasa and Hafouf) makers and some moved to Oman and UAE where their descendants still work in this field and related items.

The style was copied by various southern Saudi makers from Khamis Mushait, Najran and other southern cities. Makers such as Ibn Shuwail, Alhawashi and alMarri amongst others who I'll mention in an article soon.

Thank you for your help! It is a nice knife regardless of how old it is, so I will try not to worry too much about it's age. It just seems "old" to me, but as Stu has pointed out, there are many here, like yourself, that know more than I do. Hopefully the photos will help. Thanks again. I hope I did not offend. I do appreciate the information, and the help.

A.alnakkas · 17th March 2016, 05:50 AM

Its a good dagger and not made yesterday. If that's what's worrying you, Harry.

Good pictures too, but reversed (which is fine) its my main language so you can trust me on this one. It says: Mohammed AbdulMajid Dajani. This is actually very interesting as it shows something I've seen rarely but was present in multiple pieces that fell in my collection or seen in other collections. Mohammed AbdulMajid (there is no other with that name I know of,who made khanjars) signed it "Dajani" keep in mind that family names always start with "al" its more of a testament to its original or perhaps most skilled maker, Hussain alDajani.

The best thing about AlHasa makers was to me their close proximity to my country and to the citizens of my country. Hasawis are very family/clan oriented and pride themselves in knowing each other. So when I began my research I struggled first until I began asking Hasawis and a wealth of information was unlocked. All of the sudden I know that makers of swords/daggers I own are alive and some inherited by their children who continue the work still (albeit only for custom orders)

I am in contact with Mohammed AbdulMajid's nephew and AlHasa's most prominent researcher, the craftmanship is dying out with the young choosing other professions and the old either quitting due to lack of income or simply passing away. So you do have a decent item with a rich history to appreciate, and this type is closely connected to a previous type that I am working to produce a proper article on its history.

So, dont be upset about digits that the local users and makers never really cared about :-)))

16th March 2016, 03:49 PM	#4
harrywagner Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 373	Seems unlikely Sorry, but I am not buying that this is late 20th. No way. It is at least late 19th or first half 20th. I have asked the seller when they bought it, but our lack of a common language is a problem. His English is only slightly better than my poor French, so a clear understanding of when this actually was is still a "work in progress". I "think" what he is telling me is that his Father bought it between 1940 and 1950. Remember that the French had a big presence in the ME at that time. I think this is late 19th or early to mid 20th, and until I am convinced otherwise I will be "sticking to my guns". Harry

16th March 2016, 03:57 AM	#1
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	a nice piece! :-) This is Saudi, and from the later half of the 20th century. Although its not too old, its authentic and very well made. The maker is Mohammed AbdulMajid alBin Eissa of alHasa region. He is still alive today but has health issues. Unless you can take clearer photos of the inscription, and it shows that the father made it, then that would make it older but no older than early 20th century. This type of dagger is called Dojani after the name of another AlHasa maker ( and attributed often to Oman when in fact it is not) These are predominantly made in Alhasa, where the style evolved into the highly curved one to suit the southern Arab taste who in turn named this style "Dojani" after one of its most famous makers, Hussain alDajani. There are plenty of other Eastern Saudi (Alhasa and Hafouf) makers and some moved to Oman and UAE where their descendants still work in this field and related items. The style was copied by various southern Saudi makers from Khamis Mushait, Najran and other southern cities. Makers such as Ibn Shuwail, Alhawashi and alMarri amongst others who I'll mention in an article soon.

16th March 2016, 10:06 AM	#2
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	that's amazing knowledge and information,A alnakkas,cheers

16th March 2016, 08:43 PM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	i've been to al hasa back in the early 1980's with some friends, scenery was interesting tho mostly shades of brown. interesting 'caves' & fissures in the al qara mountain and an ancient old man still making clay pots, jugs, etc from the local clay. nice old souks, i remember a bunch of copper/brass artisans tapping away making bowls, trays, coffee/tea pots etc. in front of their shops. i gather it's been 'modernised' quite a bit, shopping malls, etc. now. was a nice, tho warm, day trip down from dhahran for the wives and kids.

17th March 2016, 05:50 AM	#9
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Its a good dagger and not made yesterday. If that's what's worrying you, Harry. Good pictures too, but reversed (which is fine) its my main language so you can trust me on this one. It says: Mohammed AbdulMajid Dajani. This is actually very interesting as it shows something I've seen rarely but was present in multiple pieces that fell in my collection or seen in other collections. Mohammed AbdulMajid (there is no other with that name I know of,who made khanjars) signed it "Dajani" keep in mind that family names always start with "al" its more of a testament to its original or perhaps most skilled maker, Hussain alDajani. The best thing about AlHasa makers was to me their close proximity to my country and to the citizens of my country. Hasawis are very family/clan oriented and pride themselves in knowing each other. So when I began my research I struggled first until I began asking Hasawis and a wealth of information was unlocked. All of the sudden I know that makers of swords/daggers I own are alive and some inherited by their children who continue the work still (albeit only for custom orders) I am in contact with Mohammed AbdulMajid's nephew and AlHasa's most prominent researcher, the craftmanship is dying out with the young choosing other professions and the old either quitting due to lack of income or simply passing away. So you do have a decent item with a rich history to appreciate, and this type is closely connected to a previous type that I am working to produce a proper article on its history. So, dont be upset about digits that the local users and makers never really cared about :-)))