19th Century Omani Khanjar?

[harrywagner]

A few more photos Can anyone help with the translation?

[A.alnakkas]

a nice piece! :-)

This is Saudi, and from the later half of the 20th century. Although its not too old, its authentic and very well made. The maker is Mohammed AbdulMajid alBin Eissa of alHasa region. He is still alive today but has health issues. Unless you can take clearer photos of the inscription, and it shows that the father made it, then that would make it older but no older than early 20th century.

This type of dagger is called Dojani after the name of another AlHasa maker ( and attributed often to Oman when in fact it is not) These are predominantly made in Alhasa, where the style evolved into the highly curved one to suit the southern Arab taste who in turn named this style "Dojani" after one of its most famous makers, Hussain alDajani.

There are plenty of other Eastern Saudi (Alhasa and Hafouf) makers and some moved to Oman and UAE where their descendants still work in this field and related items.

The style was copied by various southern Saudi makers from Khamis Mushait, Najran and other southern cities. Makers such as Ibn Shuwail, Alhawashi and alMarri amongst others who I'll mention in an article soon.

[BANDOOK]

that's amazing knowledge and information,A alnakkas,cheers

[harrywagner]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

is Saudi, and from the later half of the 20th century. Although its not too old, its authentic and very well made. The maker is Mohammed AbdulMajid alBin Eissa of alHasa region. He is still alive today but has health issues. Unless you can take clearer photos of the inscription, and it shows that the father made it, then that would make it older but no older than early 20th century.
.

Thanks! I am surprised. The seller never mentioned the item's age, but it sure looks like an antique to my untrained eye. I will ask the seller when he bought it. Thanks again!

[harrywagner]

Sorry, but I am not buying that this is late 20th. No way. It is at least late 19th or first half 20th. I have asked the seller when they bought it, but our lack of a common language is a problem. His English is only slightly better than my poor French, so a clear understanding of when this actually was is still a "work in progress". I "think" what he is telling me is that his Father bought it between 1940 and 1950. Remember that the French had a big presence in the ME at that time.

I think this is late 19th or early to mid 20th, and until I am convinced otherwise I will be "sticking to my guns".

Harry

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by harrywagner

Sorry, but I am not buying that this is late 20th. No way. It is at least late 19th or first half 20th. I have asked the seller when they bought it, but our lack of a common language is a problem. His English is only slightly better than my poor French, so a clear understanding of when this actually was is still a "work in progress". I "think" what he is telling me is that his Father bought it between 1940 and 1950. Remember that the French had a big presence in the ME at that time.

I think this is late 19th or early to mid 20th, and until I am convinced otherwise I will be "sticking to my guns".

Harry

If you read Lofty's first Para carefully you will see that he says that "if the father made it" then it would be earlier. Perhaps if you posted, as he suggests, a clearer pic of the inscription then things can be further clarified.
Also bear in mind that the second half of the 20th c is from 1950 onwards, which could possibly mean that the Khanjar is 66 years old at least.
As has been discussed elsewhere many times, it is difficult to accurately age these items as they were not made in a factory, so no actual records exist. The only possibility is to have WATERTIGHT provenance or at least a VALID makers mark/signature.
I personally do not doubt Lofty's dating, as he and others of this Forum who actually live in the ME, have done much research on weapons of that region.
Stu

[kronckew]

i've been to al hasa back in the early 1980's with some friends, scenery was interesting tho mostly shades of brown. interesting 'caves' & fissures in the al qara mountain and an ancient old man still making clay pots, jugs, etc from the local clay. nice old souks, i remember a bunch of copper/brass artisans tapping away making bowls, trays, coffee/tea pots etc. in front of their shops. i gather it's been 'modernised' quite a bit, shopping malls, etc. now. was a nice, tho warm, day trip down from dhahran for the wives and kids.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by harrywagner

Sorry, but I am not buying that this is late 20th. No way. It is at least late 19th or first half 20th.............................................. ..........I think this is late 19th or early to mid 20th, and until I am convinced otherwise I will be "sticking to my guns".

Harry

Harry, do not under estimate how worn an item can look when used daily in a desert environment. I have noticed this with many Arabian jambiya I have seen, they look worn and well used but I know that they probably not nearly as old as they appear. You have a very nice, complete set, it is possible that the belt is older and was reused, who knows.

[harrywagner]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

a nice piece! :-)

This is Saudi, and from the later half of the 20th century. Although its not too old, its authentic and very well made. The maker is Mohammed AbdulMajid alBin Eissa of alHasa region. He is still alive today but has health issues. Unless you can take clearer photos of the inscription, and it shows that the father made it, then that would make it older but no older than early 20th century.

This type of dagger is called Dojani after the name of another AlHasa maker ( and attributed often to Oman when in fact it is not) These are predominantly made in Alhasa, where the style evolved into the highly curved one to suit the southern Arab taste who in turn named this style "Dojani" after one of its most famous makers, Hussain alDajani.

There are plenty of other Eastern Saudi (Alhasa and Hafouf) makers and some moved to Oman and UAE where their descendants still work in this field and related items.

The style was copied by various southern Saudi makers from Khamis Mushait, Najran and other southern cities. Makers such as Ibn Shuwail, Alhawashi and alMarri amongst others who I'll mention in an article soon.

Thank you for your help! It is a nice knife regardless of how old it is, so I will try not to worry too much about it's age. It just seems "old" to me, but as Stu has pointed out, there are many here, like yourself, that know more than I do. Hopefully the photos will help. Thanks again. I hope I did not offend. I do appreciate the information, and the help.

[A.alnakkas]

Its a good dagger and not made yesterday. If that's what's worrying you, Harry.

Good pictures too, but reversed (which is fine) its my main language so you can trust me on this one. It says: Mohammed AbdulMajid Dajani. This is actually very interesting as it shows something I've seen rarely but was present in multiple pieces that fell in my collection or seen in other collections. Mohammed AbdulMajid (there is no other with that name I know of,who made khanjars) signed it "Dajani" keep in mind that family names always start with "al" its more of a testament to its original or perhaps most skilled maker, Hussain alDajani.

The best thing about AlHasa makers was to me their close proximity to my country and to the citizens of my country. Hasawis are very family/clan oriented and pride themselves in knowing each other. So when I began my research I struggled first until I began asking Hasawis and a wealth of information was unlocked. All of the sudden I know that makers of swords/daggers I own are alive and some inherited by their children who continue the work still (albeit only for custom orders)

I am in contact with Mohammed AbdulMajid's nephew and AlHasa's most prominent researcher, the craftmanship is dying out with the young choosing other professions and the old either quitting due to lack of income or simply passing away. So you do have a decent item with a rich history to appreciate, and this type is closely connected to a previous type that I am working to produce a proper article on its history.

So, dont be upset about digits that the local users and makers never really cared about :-)))

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by harrywagner

A few more photos Can anyone help with the translation?

Salaams Harry Wagner, As already noted this is from Al Hasa in Eastern Saudia. The style is interesting and carries the copied in style of the Muscat Khanjar...and its 7 rings, the mulberry fruit clusters and the little shields above the belt outer rings common on Nizwa weapons...and the general aura of the Muscat and Sayyidiyyah styles. The link between Oman and Al Hasa was through the trading ports of Muscat and Bahrain. In addition great camel trains brought goods as well as slaves from Buraimi to the Al Hasa oasis therefor the linki can clearly be seen. "Similar" mirroring of style can be seen in the Habaabi Khanjar from Abha now in SW Saudia near the Yemen border... Look in Search for this. Type The Omani Khanjar.. or... Habaabi

See maps below. Note that in the old days Al Hasa oasis was part of the Al Bahrain region.

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Harry Wagner, As already noted this is from Al Hasa in Eastern Saudia. The style is interesting and carries the copied in style of the Muscat Khanjar...and its 7 rings, the mulberry fruit clusters and the little shields above the belt outer rings common on Nizwa weapons...and the general aura of the Muscat and Sayyidiyyah styles. The link between Oman and Al Hasa was through the trading ports of Muscat and Bahrain. In addition great camel trains brought goods as well as slaves from Buraimi to the Al Hasa oasis therefor the linki can clearly be seen. "Similar" mirroring of style can be seen in the Habaabi Khanjar from Abha now in SW Saudia near the Yemen border... Look in Search for this. Type The Omani Khanjar.. or... Habaabi

See maps below. Note that in the old days Al Hasa oasis was part of the Al Bahrain region.

This is actually very interesting. I do see why this type would often be considered a descendant or influenced by the Saidi dagger, it makers sense, both have many similarities.

Now when it comes to the term Habaabi, from where did it originate, Peter?

I do not know of any area called Habaabi, there is Alhababiya in Madina but thats way off course. There is alHabaabi tribe, but why would a type of dagger worn through out the kingdom (even by some of AlSaud) be considered specific to a certain tribe that did not produce a single artisan for this style?

Asir region and other southern Saudi areas use many styles, one of which is the one in discussion and this style has well known makers and lesser known ones. Some are actually made in Riyadh by skilled Indian workers. Some are custom made in Oman too. So its abit more broad than a single tribe.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

This is actually very interesting. I do see why this type would often be considered a descendant or influenced by the Saidi dagger, it makers sense, both have many similarities.

Now when it comes to the term Habaabi, from where did it originate, Peter?

I do not know of any area called Habaabi, there is Alhababiya in Madina but thats way off course. There is alHabaabi tribe, but why would a type of dagger worn through out the kingdom (even by some of AlSaud) be considered specific to a certain tribe that did not produce a single artisan for this style?

Asir region and other southern Saudi areas use many styles, one of which is the one in discussion and this style has well known makers and lesser known ones. Some are actually made in Riyadh by skilled Indian workers. Some are custom made in Oman too. So its abit more broad than a single tribe.

Salaams A.alnakkas,

SEE http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=habaabi

This library reference is self explanatory. Abha is the centre focal point fed by the important seaport Jizzan...and in the old days a stop off port to and from Zanzibar. (Muscat Sur Jizzan Zanzibar Jizzan Sur Muscat) The link to Omani Khanjars is very obvious; and an entirely logical transmission of that style to the Asir and before it itself was absorbed into Saudia...in about 1923...though it took some decades before the shroud of silence and secrecy was actually lifted on the entire region. It is my view that al Wustah ...through Sur...provided the style of dagger into the Asir copied by silversmiths and stamped locally.

Some local influence is visible including the Flower Men tribal stamp...a bunch of flowers. Usually on the reverse. The likely use in Oman of the descriptive word for daggers of this type from that area is Habaabi meaning of Abha.

On age...I have to agree on how difficult this is. What conditions was it worn in?... Was it stored for years ....?...What you are trying to do is guesstimate the age ... look at the obvious wear of being on the waist for decades ...See what back up evidence there is... belt?...and how much credence would you place on that?...belts are renewable...old belts can be put on new weapons...ha! but more to the point... every bit of the khanjar can be replaced ...so how to decide ?? Good blades will go on and on whilst it is very easy to switch a hilt...Silver goes old looking quite quickly... You cant win...but you can generalize and nothing wrong in saying the middle date...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams A.alnakkas,

SEE http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=habaabi

This library reference is self explanatory. Abha is the centre focal point fed by the important seaport Jizzan...and in the old days a stop off port to and from Zanzibar. (Muscat Sur Jizzan Zanzibar Jizzan Sur Muscat) The link to Omani Khanjars is very obvious; and an entirely logical transmission of that style to the Asir and before it itself was absorbed into Saudia...in about 1923...though it took some decades before the shroud of silence and secrecy was actually lifted on the entire region. It is my view that al Wustah ...through Sur...provided the style of dagger into the Asir copied by silversmiths and stamped locally.

Some local influence is visible including the Flower Men tribal stamp...a bunch of flowers. Usually on the reverse. The likely use in Oman of the descriptive word for daggers of this type from that area is Habaabi meaning of Abha.

On age...I have to agree on how difficult this is. What conditions was it worn in?... Was it stored for years ....?...What you are trying to do is guesstimate the age ... look at the obvious wear of being on the waist for decades ...See what back up evidence there is... belt?...and how much credence would you place on that?...belts are renewable...old belts can be put on new weapons...ha! but more to the point... every bit of the khanjar can be replaced ...so how to decide ?? Good blades will go on and on whilst it is very easy to switch a hilt...Silver goes old looking quite quickly... You cant win...but you can generalize and nothing wrong in saying the middle date...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

While the "flower men" do wear this style now, it was never their invention. Historically they carried the dharia more than this style but since this style now is the current vogue :-)

Abha is not called Habaabi, Habaabi is a tribe that is present in that region. The flower men are not Habaabi too, and most of them live in the mountain of Habala.

If its an Omani term for this style of dagger, then that does not make it a 'habaabi' dagger.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

While the "flower men" do wear this style now, it was never their invention. Historically they carried the dharia more than this style but since this style now is the current vogue :-)

Abha is not called Habaabi, Habaabi is a tribe that is present in that region. The flower men are not Habaabi too, and most of them live in the mountain of Habala.

If its an Omani term for this style of dagger, then that does not make it a 'habaabi' dagger.

The dagger from Abha is called the "Habaabi" in Oman. Meaning` of Al Abha. Consider the historical reasoning built around the important sea port of Jazzan feeding into the entire area ...Abha being the capital.....coupled with the vital sea route link of Muscat, Sur, Jazzan and Zanzibar and reverse. Zanzibar was the capital of Oman (Stone Town) and shipping thrived during the reign of Saaid Bin Sultan between 1804 and 1856 as well as large parts of the time before and after his death. It is easy to see how the al Wustah weapon transmitted to the Asir which at the time was Yemeni...but absorbed into Saudia in 1923.

Do not confuse Ahsa with the Asir style. The transmission or copying of style in the al Hasa Oasis in Eastern Saudia may well also have come from al Wustah style....but that is more difficult to establish because the hilt is largely re designed...It may be also partly copied from the Royal Khanjar (Sayyidiyyah) or the Muscat weapon.

It may be further seen that the Royal Khanjar hilt was designed from Indian form but that another Khanjar was instrumental in its looks...that of the Muscat Khanjar.. itself remarkably similar to the al Wustah !! The last 200 plus years have allowed the Omani Khanjar situation to spread and tangle, although, for what its worth we have now got a fairly firm hand on the idiosyncrasies and mirroring of types...and neighboring country variants.

Almost all the Northern Oman workshops are capable of producing almost all of the different Khanjars of Oman...

Any scabbard technically can be joined with a Royal Khanjar Hilt.... forms mix and mingle and because dagger parts are interchangeable confusion can sometimes run rampant. The wife of one Sultan redesigned the Khanjar Hilt of her husband but only the hilt...thus, there are 4 ringer and 7 ringer (and sometimes more rings) scabbards with the royal hilt.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[ariel]

Reading the argument between Lotfi and Ibrahiim teaches me something.

Here are two very smart, knowledgeable and dedicated guys, fluent in local language, living right smack in the area of interest, having access to the local sources and even living masters, spending a lot of time researching strictly local weapons , and... still disagreeing with each other:-).

What becomes obvious is that history of any weapon is significantly more complex than we imagine and no matter how authoritative is the opinion of any expert, there is significantly more mystery under the surface.

And that's the fun of it!

Thank you both!

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

The dagger from Abha is called the "Habaabi" in Oman. Meaning` of Al Abha. Consider the historical reasoning built around the important sea port of Jazzan feeding into the entire area ...Abha being the capital.....coupled with the vital sea route link of Muscat, Sur, Jazzan and Zanzibar and reverse. Zanzibar was the capital of Oman (Stone Town) and shipping thrived during the reign of Saaid Bin Sultan between 1804 and 1856 as well as large parts of the time before and after his death. It is easy to see how the al Wustah weapon transmitted to the Asir which at the time was Yemeni...but absorbed into Saudia in 1923.

Maybe a few Omani individuals who are around the area you work in call it Habaabi? A few Omani researchers (Jamal AlKindi for one) seem to simply call it a Saudi Khanjar amongst other Omani collectors. Thats hardly an argument. I think its an issue of what the locals call it and what foreigners do. I tend to go with what the locals use :-))

Still, Omanis, or any other Arab society for that matters, do not call Abha "Habaabi" I find that very odd especially that there is no source or anything to support it.

Do not confuse Ahsa with the Asir style. The transmission or copying of style in the al Hasa Oasis in Eastern Saudia may well also have come from al Wustah style....but that is more difficult to establish because the hilt is largely re designed...It may be also partly copied from the Royal Khanjar (Sayyidiyyah) or the Muscat weapon.

All Asiri makers copy the dojani style. The style simply got modified by having a slightly more curved scabbard compared to the one posted by HarryWagner. Pictures added of one perfect example actually, previously posted in the forum. The chape inscription while faded, I am able to read it and its made by non other than Hussain AlDajani himself.

It may be further seen that the Royal Khanjar hilt was designed from Indian form but that another Khanjar was instrumental in its looks...that of the Muscat Khanjar.. itself remarkably similar to the al Wustah !! The last 200 plus years have allowed the Omani Khanjar situation to spread and tangle, although, for what its worth we have now got a fairly firm hand on the idiosyncrasies and mirroring of types...and neighboring country variants.

Almost all the Northern Oman workshops are capable of producing almost all of the different Khanjars of Oman...

Any scabbard technically can be joined with a Royal Khanjar Hilt.... forms mix and mingle and because dagger parts are interchangeable confusion can sometimes run rampant. The wife of one Sultan redesigned the Khanjar Hilt of her husband but only the hilt...thus, there are 4 ringer and 7 ringer (and sometimes more rings) scabbards with the royal hilt.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

I agree that there is a very strong similarity to Oman. But other parts of the peninsula used similar styles as old as the Saidi. I'll forward you an article soon just doing the final touches :-))

[harrywagner]

Many thanks for the comments and the wealth of information. I had to remind myself that I own a Kaskara that also looks like late 19th but is really only mid 20th. The Kaskara and this Jambiya were not made in the same place, but both were made (and presumably used) in rugged terrain. Maybe items from this part of the world age quickly if they are worn and used daily. Thanks again! Much appreciated.

Harry