My First Kris

arsendaday · 3rd March 2016, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

I WOULD THINK BENDING THE INDONESIAN OR MALAY KERIS OR ANY PARMOR BLADE TO BE ESPECIALLY RISKY DUE TO THE WAY THEY ARE MADE. I HAVE SEEN A TIP BROKEN OFF JUST FROM DROPPING A BLADE ON ITS TIP. SOME KERIS HAVE A STEEL CENTER WITH APPLIED PARMOR LAYERS ON BOTH SIDES WHICH COULD POSSIBLY SEPARATE OR BREAK.

THE TANG OR PESKI IS OFTEN NOT TEMPERED AND CAN BEND AND STAY BENT OR BREAK AS WELL.

Thank you! And that's exactly why I started this "bending" subject. Aside from keris' looks and religious or spiritual aspects, a keris is, first of all, a weapon. And if your weapon can bend or brake during a fight than how useful is it really. What I want to find out about these "daggers" is if they were always made this way, or at some point in the past, due to a shift from a weapon to a religious and/or traditional symbol, the blacksmiths just stopped making them battle-worthy and only concentrated on the looks. It happened to Caucasian kindjals and at some point they were even making kindjals with a beautiful and expensive handles and sheaths (from silver or ivory) and an aluminum blade. Just a wall hanger.
So my question is if anybody owns, or has seen a keris with a blade that is of high quality steel and which will be able to withstand a battle.

David · 3rd March 2016, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arsendaday

So my question is if anybody owns, or has seen a keris with a blade that is of high quality steel and which will be able to withstand a battle.

I would suggest that if you really want an answer that you approach the keris crowd with this subject on the keris forum.
My quick answer is that both purely talismanic and/or status blades have been made for a very long time as well as the "battle ready" variety, but keep in mind the way in which a keris is used martially (as a stabbing weapon) does not require the same qualities to hold up in a fight as a slashing or chopping edged weapon does.

Battara · 4th March 2016, 12:03 AM

And most older pre-20 century Moro kris were battle ready as well as talismanic, and laminated. Vandoo is correct in that in much later versions the quality often dropped. Moro kris were more slashing weapons and not stabbers.

VANDOO · 4th March 2016, 12:23 AM

ON THE KERIS FORUM YOU WILL FIND LOTS OF INFORMATION ON INDONESIAN AND MALAY KERIS DAGGERS. THE MORO PHILIPPINE AND MALAY SUDANG, SWORD FORMS OF KRIS WILL BE FOUND ON THIS FORUM. THERE IS QUITE A BIT OF DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE TWO BOTH IN FORM, FUNCTION AS WELL AS SPIRITUAL BELIEFS.
THE KERIS DAGGERS ARE HELD BY THE BLADE WITH THE FINGERS WITH THE HANDLE CRADLED IN THE PALM. THE HANDLE IS LEFT LOOSE SO THE BLADE CAN TURN SLIGHTLY TO FIT THE HAND BETTER AND ACCOMMODATE THE THRUST. IT IS DESIGNED FOR A STRAIGHT IN AND OUT THRUST. THE PARMOR OF THE BLADE IS ROUGH NOT SMOOTH LIKE MOST DAGGER BLADES SO A RAGGED WOUND WOULD RESULT. THE TANG IS NOT DESIGNED FOR STRENGTH SO WAS NOT MADE STRONG AS A KERIS WAS HANDLED WITH FINESSE NOT BRUTE STRENGTH. IN EARLY ENCOUNTERS ABOARD SHIPS BELAYING PINS WERE SAID TO BE EFFECTIVE AGAINST THE KERIS AS A HEAVY BLOW FROM THE SIDE OFTEN BENT OR BROKE THE PESKI (TANG) OR BLADE.

arsendaday · 4th March 2016, 04:21 AM

After all of your explanations it's making a lot of sense now! Thanks

Sajen · 4th March 2016, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Moro kris were more slashing weapons and not stabbers.

Arsendaday,
agree with Battara, here is a close-up picture kris from a kris of my collection which has seen serious fights, the edges have a lot of nicks as sign of this.

arsendaday · 5th March 2016, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Arsendaday,
agree with Battara, here is a close-up picture kris from a kris of my collection which has seen serious fights, the edges have a lot of nicks as sign of this.

I see Sajen, can you please post the picture of the whole kris. It seems to be a cool one. Thanks.

Sajen · 6th March 2016, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arsendaday

I see Sajen, can you please post the picture of the whole kris. It seems to be a cool one. Thanks.

Hello Arsendaday,

thank you, have a look here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=kris

Regards,
Detlef

Battara · 6th March 2016, 08:41 PM

Good example Sajen!

4th March 2016, 04:21 AM	#5
arsendaday Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 44	Got it! After all of your explanations it's making a lot of sense now! Thanks

4th March 2016, 12:03 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,270	And most older pre-20 century Moro kris were battle ready as well as talismanic, and laminated. Vandoo is correct in that in much later versions the quality often dropped. Moro kris were more slashing weapons and not stabbers.

4th March 2016, 12:23 AM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	ON THE KERIS FORUM YOU WILL FIND LOTS OF INFORMATION ON INDONESIAN AND MALAY KERIS DAGGERS. THE MORO PHILIPPINE AND MALAY SUDANG, SWORD FORMS OF KRIS WILL BE FOUND ON THIS FORUM. THERE IS QUITE A BIT OF DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE TWO BOTH IN FORM, FUNCTION AS WELL AS SPIRITUAL BELIEFS. THE KERIS DAGGERS ARE HELD BY THE BLADE WITH THE FINGERS WITH THE HANDLE CRADLED IN THE PALM. THE HANDLE IS LEFT LOOSE SO THE BLADE CAN TURN SLIGHTLY TO FIT THE HAND BETTER AND ACCOMMODATE THE THRUST. IT IS DESIGNED FOR A STRAIGHT IN AND OUT THRUST. THE PARMOR OF THE BLADE IS ROUGH NOT SMOOTH LIKE MOST DAGGER BLADES SO A RAGGED WOUND WOULD RESULT. THE TANG IS NOT DESIGNED FOR STRENGTH SO WAS NOT MADE STRONG AS A KERIS WAS HANDLED WITH FINESSE NOT BRUTE STRENGTH. IN EARLY ENCOUNTERS ABOARD SHIPS BELAYING PINS WERE SAID TO BE EFFECTIVE AGAINST THE KERIS AS A HEAVY BLOW FROM THE SIDE OFTEN BENT OR BROKE THE PESKI (TANG) OR BLADE.

6th March 2016, 08:41 PM	#9
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,270	Good example Sajen!