need help

David · 2nd March 2016, 10:52 PM

The sheath is most definitely a Balinese sheath.
The sheath seems older than the blade to me. The blade looks contemporary, done in a Balinese style, but i am not certain if it was made there or possibly by a Javanese smith in the Bali form. This is not a pamor pattern that you see very often on a true Balinese keris. I suspect that Alan is asking about the fit to see if this sheath was indeed made for this blade or in fact adapted. I suspect the latter, but your photos will tell.
No matter the actual origin of the blade it is a Bali style and i would fit this with a Balinese style hilt. I would think a basic bondalan style would be appropriate here.

ariel · 3rd March 2016, 12:08 AM

Thanks for responding. I am sure the blade and the sheath were made for each other. They fit each other perfectly and the opening of the sheath faithfully reproduces the outline of the top of the gangya.

A. G. Maisey · 3rd March 2016, 12:25 AM

Thanks Ariel.

My first impression was current era production of both blade and scabbard, but if we look closely at the blade, this pamor does not really reflect the way in which the current stuff is done, there are more than a few imperfections, and the cold management of the pamor has not been done very well.

Current era production would be expected to be of much better quality --- these Madura smiths are amongst the world's best pattern welders, ever. Pattern welding has been done in the Sumenep area for hundreds of years, and the present generation have inherited one hell of a lot of knowledge and skill.

The forge work does not look like Bali, main island production, but the cold work does tend to reflect what we expect to see in a Bali keris.

I could change my mind if I handled this blade, but from what I believe I can see in the photos, I am inclined to give it as Bali-Lombok.

The form of the scabbard is unusual, yes, overall form is most certainly Bali, but I cannot recall ever having seen the details in this combination in a Bali scabbard, so once again I'll take a punt on Lombok.

All in all, not a bad keris, as David has suggested I'd opt for a planar Bali hilt, Bondolan style, with or without the hilt ring.

ariel · 3rd March 2016, 12:35 AM

Thanks Alan!

I was wondering about the wood. The sheath is incredibly heavy, very dark to the point I thought it was painted or stained. I took a bit of aceton and rubbed in an inconspicuous area: nothing. The wood color is natural.

A. G. Maisey · 3rd March 2016, 03:29 AM

In the photo it looks dark brown, but if in fact it tends towards blackish, its probably what they call 'kayu arang' in Bali, which is a type of ebony, I'd guess Thailand ebony. This wood is not uncommon in Balinese scabbards.

ariel · 3rd March 2016, 03:55 AM

It is almost black, you are correct, So it fits, doesn't it?
Many thanks again.
Can you guess the age of this kris?
And how difficult is it to get a good Planar Balinese handle?
Any particular name for this pamor?

A. G. Maisey · 3rd March 2016, 05:15 AM

Bulu ayam is as good a name as any for the pamor. Chicken feathers.

There are other names, I've given an East Jawa name, there might be a Bali name, but off the top of my head I can't think of it.

If my Lombok guess is correct we could probably give age as 1850-1940, if I'm wrong and it is current era Sumenep production I'd say 1985-2000.

It could be quite difficult to get a nice bondolan hilt with a bit of age, and if truly old, expect unreasonably expensive. I don't do ebay, but I'd guess that consistent trawling of that site would eventually get you something.

David · 3rd March 2016, 05:27 AM

Thanks for the additional images. I would agree that this sheath does appear to have been made for this blade. This will be a nice ensemble once you add a hilt. Bondolan hilts are not difficult to come by. I see them pop up on eBay rather regularly. Will keep an eye out for you.

3rd March 2016, 12:08 AM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Thanks for responding. I am sure the blade and the sheath were made for each other. They fit each other perfectly and the opening of the sheath faithfully reproduces the outline of the top of the gangya. Attached Images

2nd March 2016, 10:52 PM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,237	The sheath is most definitely a Balinese sheath. The sheath seems older than the blade to me. The blade looks contemporary, done in a Balinese style, but i am not certain if it was made there or possibly by a Javanese smith in the Bali form. This is not a pamor pattern that you see very often on a true Balinese keris. I suspect that Alan is asking about the fit to see if this sheath was indeed made for this blade or in fact adapted. I suspect the latter, but your photos will tell. No matter the actual origin of the blade it is a Bali style and i would fit this with a Balinese style hilt. I would think a basic bondalan style would be appropriate here.

3rd March 2016, 12:25 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	Thanks Ariel. My first impression was current era production of both blade and scabbard, but if we look closely at the blade, this pamor does not really reflect the way in which the current stuff is done, there are more than a few imperfections, and the cold management of the pamor has not been done very well. Current era production would be expected to be of much better quality --- these Madura smiths are amongst the world's best pattern welders, ever. Pattern welding has been done in the Sumenep area for hundreds of years, and the present generation have inherited one hell of a lot of knowledge and skill. The forge work does not look like Bali, main island production, but the cold work does tend to reflect what we expect to see in a Bali keris. I could change my mind if I handled this blade, but from what I believe I can see in the photos, I am inclined to give it as Bali-Lombok. The form of the scabbard is unusual, yes, overall form is most certainly Bali, but I cannot recall ever having seen the details in this combination in a Bali scabbard, so once again I'll take a punt on Lombok. All in all, not a bad keris, as David has suggested I'd opt for a planar Bali hilt, Bondolan style, with or without the hilt ring.

3rd March 2016, 12:35 AM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Thanks Alan! I was wondering about the wood. The sheath is incredibly heavy, very dark to the point I thought it was painted or stained. I took a bit of aceton and rubbed in an inconspicuous area: nothing. The wood color is natural.

3rd March 2016, 03:29 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	In the photo it looks dark brown, but if in fact it tends towards blackish, its probably what they call 'kayu arang' in Bali, which is a type of ebony, I'd guess Thailand ebony. This wood is not uncommon in Balinese scabbards.

3rd March 2016, 03:55 AM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	It is almost black, you are correct, So it fits, doesn't it? Many thanks again. Can you guess the age of this kris? And how difficult is it to get a good Planar Balinese handle? Any particular name for this pamor?

3rd March 2016, 05:15 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	Bulu ayam is as good a name as any for the pamor. Chicken feathers. There are other names, I've given an East Jawa name, there might be a Bali name, but off the top of my head I can't think of it. If my Lombok guess is correct we could probably give age as 1850-1940, if I'm wrong and it is current era Sumenep production I'd say 1985-2000. It could be quite difficult to get a nice bondolan hilt with a bit of age, and if truly old, expect unreasonably expensive. I don't do ebay, but I'd guess that consistent trawling of that site would eventually get you something.

3rd March 2016, 05:27 AM	#8
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,237	Thanks for the additional images. I would agree that this sheath does appear to have been made for this blade. This will be a nice ensemble once you add a hilt. Bondolan hilts are not difficult to come by. I see them pop up on eBay rather regularly. Will keep an eye out for you.