Vasily Vereshchagin "Indian poem"

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by ariel

Flindt describes there general structure of all Bukharan handles. No argument about kards and bichaks.
I am asking specifically about "shashkas" . All his examples and all I have seen or handled have 5 ( rarely 4, if the grip is narrower than usual).
Can you show an example of a "shashka" with 3 rivets?
I am intrigued.

I'm sorry. Where in the quotation from Torben Flindt which I posted,, you see mention of Kard and Pichok? I specifically placed the piece of text that no one had any doubt as to the correctness of citations Torben Flindt in this fragment writes exclusively about Bukhara shashkas. Or I confuse? In the English word "sword" can mean "knife" ??? My English is bad. And I do not know it.....

[Jens Nordlunde]

In post 59 only part of what Torben wrote about the hilts is shown. Here is it all.

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

In post 59 only part of what Torben wrote about the hilts is shown. Here is it all.

Thank you, Jens.
Do I understand correctly that the phrase Torben Flindt "3-5 of rivets on the hilts" refers not only to knifes (Kard and Bichok), but also to Bukhara shashkas?

[Jens Nordlunde]

Torben writes about the swords when he mentions the 3-5 rivets. When it comes to the Bukharan daggers he writes: 'The same materials and manner of fitting them are found on Bukharan daggers of the bytshak and karud types.' So here he doesn't give the number of rivets, but my guess is, that had the number of rivets been different on the daggers he would have mentioned it.

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Torben writes about the swords when he mentions the 3-5 rivets.

Thank you so much. I am glad that I have correctly understood the article Torben Flindt.

[ariel]

Jens,
This passage in Flindt's article is very confusing, and I read it differently.

According to Flindt, it is the large size of the rivets that is the " Bukharan characteristics"

If so, the upper handle with 3 large rivets ( Afghani pseudo-shashka) must be Bukharan, whereas the two lower ones ( both Bukharan shashkas) with 5 small rivets are not Bukharan at all :-)

My point remains the same: can somebody show an example of a Bukharan "shashka" with 3 rivets? I have yet to see one.

[mahratt]

This passage in Flindt's article is not confusing. It just need to read carefully. Torben Flindt says that Bukhara swords (shashkas) on the handle rivets 3-5. This means that the Bukharan shahshkas on the handle can be from 3 to 5 rivets. Yes, in most cases on the hilt of Bukhara 5 rivets (thanks for your example). Sometimes there are 4 rivets (I showed it). And there Bukhara shashkas with 3 rivets on the handle.This writes Torben Flindt and Vereshchagin, who painted them in the 19th century..

I trust Torben Flindt, who studied Bukhara checkers and Vereshchagin, who painted them in the 19th century.

But surely you can have your opinion.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by ariel

Jens,
This passage in Flindt's article is very confusing, and I read it differently.

According to Flindt, it is the large size of the rivets that is the " Bukharan characteristics"

If so, the upper handle with 3 large rivets ( Afghani pseudo-shashka) must be Bukharan, whereas the two lower ones ( both Bukharan shashkas) with 5 small rivets are not Bukharan at all :-)

My point remains the same: can somebody show an example of a Bukharan "shashka" with 3 rivets? I have yet to see one.

I do not see anything "confusing" about this particular passage.

When wood or horn were used, the gripshells were held together by THREE TO FIVE large iron rivets whose size may be regarded as a Bukharan characteristic.

The question is not whether anyone has a picture of a Bukharan three rivet shashka/sword, the question is....can a Bukharan shashka have small iron rivets. Was Flindt naming the only chatacteristics or just some of several possible Bukharan styles of riveting. Can the Bukharan shashka/sword be identified by shape/style alone or are large rivets the only indicator that a shashka/sword is Bukharan.

A Very fine example of a sword from Uzbekistan of typical Bukharan style. The slightly curved 29 inches long blade is forged of very fine wootz steel of the ladder pattern. The grips of rhino horn, cut axially (Very specific to Bukharan made blade hilts) and of almost black age patina, are in the general shape of that of a Pesh-Kabz dagger, also common in the central Asian countries. The hilt bolster is silver with niello decoration and the scabbard fittings are silver covered with a dense mosaic of small Turquoise stones, also in a typical decorative style of Bukhara.