When in India "died" wootz?

[mahratt]

Colleagues, I have found one historical source of the mid-19th century (art Masalsky 1841), where we are talking about wootz. But it turns out that this historical source says that in the middle of the 19th century has been wootz smelted.
Surely no one knows the English historical sources 19th century on this topic ...

[ariel]

It is virtually impossible to place captain Massalsky in the vicinity of Central Asian Khanates. In the 1830s both British and Russians were totally impotent to establish a foothold there. Travelers, spies and diplomats were thrown into dungeons and publicly beheaded: remember Stoddard and Conolly. Russians were treated no better. Massalsky wouldn't stand a chance of ever bringing any information back. Only after Russian conquest of Central Asian Khanates, building a railroad for quick transportation of troops, series of brutal repressions and actual demilitarization of the area ( while keeping local Khans in a semblance of power) could anybody " come and observe". But that was after ~ 1865.

On the other hand, both nations openly competed in Iran, with military instructors hired by the Persians, diplomatic missions legally establishes, bribes given and accepted on a daily basis etc,

Once again: Peter Hopkirk's "The Great Game". Set a weekend aside, find a comfy chair, a bottle of a single malt and enjoy the ride!

[ariel]

It is hopeless to attempt establishing the exact time of "disappearance of Wootz". Skills do not die on a particular date, they just wither.

Nobody would argue with a proposition that wootz was still manufactured in India and forged into blades in the middle of the 19th century. Just it was not as intensive as in the middle of the 18th or even in the first half of the 19th. From there on, wootz went into a free fall, and for a multiplicity of reasons ( see above) by the end of the 19th century its production as well as manufacture of wootz blades came to a screeching halt. Could there have been an occasional example of a newly-made blade? Yea... But that was just a proverbial " one swallow" of no practical or historical significance.

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by ariel

It is hopeless to attempt establishing the exact time of "disappearance of Wootz". Skills do not die on a particular date, they just wither.

Nobody would argue with a proposition that wootz was still manufactured in India and forged into blades in the middle of the 19th century. Just it was not as intensive as in the middle of the 18th or even in the first half of the 19th. From there on, wootz went into a free fall, and for a multiplicity of reasons ( see above) by the end of the 19th century its production as well as manufacture of wootz blades came to a screeching halt. Could there have been an occasional example of a newly-made blade? Yea... But that was just a proverbial " one swallow" of no practical or historical significance.

I agree that in your words - a lot of the correct. But it is your personal reasoning. I wonder more. I guess I'm not very well expressed his thought in previous messages. Forgive me for my bad English.

I'm curious to know:
1) Is there any historical sources (messages travelers of the 19th century, for example), who argue that in the mid-19th century, the production of wootz steel in India has stopped.
2) whether there are documents that say that in India in the 19th century, banned the production of wootz steel.

I would be grateful if you answer these my questions.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by mahratt

I agree that in your words - a lot of the correct. But it is your personal reasoning. I wonder more. I guess I'm not very well expressed his thought in previous messages. Forgive me for my bad English.

I'm curious to know:
1) Is there any historical sources (messages travelers of the 19th century, for example), who argue that in the mid-19th century, the production of wootz steel in India has stopped.
2) whether there are documents that say that in India in the 19th century, banned the production of wootz steel.

I would be grateful if you answer these my questions.

Here is an interesting statement, I have no idea how true and or extensive this statement is but I have read suggestions that the British had intentions of destroying the native Indian iron making capability, for financial gain and to make them dependent on imports or imported technology etc.

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by estcrh

Here is an interesting statement, I have no idea how true and or extensive this statement is but I have read suggestions that the British had intentions of destroying the native Indian iron making capability, for financial gain and to make them dependent on imports or imported technology etc.

It is very interesting. Can you tell me what year this edition? And please tell me the output data: author, title, and page (if it is not difficult)

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by mahratt

It is very interesting. Can you tell me what year this edition? And please tell me the output data: author, title, and page (if it is not difficult)

I believe that information is from chapter 5 of "India's Legendary Wootz Steel: An Advanced Material of the Ancient World", by Sharada Srinivasan, Srinivasa Ranganathan. National Institute of advanced studies, 2004

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by ariel

It is virtually impossible to place captain Massalsky in the vicinity of Central Asian Khanates. In the 1830s both British and Russians were totally impotent to establish a foothold there. Travelers, spies and diplomats were thrown into dungeons and publicly beheaded: remember Stoddard and Conolly. Russians were treated no better. Massalsky wouldn't stand a chance of ever bringing any information back. Only after Russian conquest of Central Asian Khanates, building a railroad for quick transportation of troops, series of brutal repressions and actual demilitarization of the area ( while keeping local Khans in a semblance of power) could anybody " come and observe". But that was after ~ 1865.

Masalsky, judging by his article (and the constant mention of the Persians) was in Persia. But, no need to dramatize the situation in Central Asia (eg in Bukhara).

In 1820 - 1821 years, captain of the Russian army E.K.Meyendorf visited the Emirate of Bukhara . After the expedition, he wrote a book: The Journey from Orenburg to Bukhara.

In 1842, merchant and explorer Khanykov traveled to Bukhara Khanate. His book was published in 1843: "The description of the Bukhara khanate."

You know the Russian language, as I remember? Then you can easily read this book.

If anyone is yet interested, this book was created and in English: "Bokhara, its amir and its people". Translated by the baron Clement A. de Bode. London, 1851.