Balinese Keris hilt ID

A. G. Maisey · 1st February 2016, 10:58 AM

Yep Jean, true:- Balinese priests don't usually sport Siciliano facial hair, but don't doubt for one moment that we are looking at somebody's representation of a pamangku, its just that art trumps tradition. How can you create a hilt like Rocanice's if you don't control the whiskers?

Jean · 1st February 2016, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Yep Jean, true:- Balinese priests don't usually sport Siciliano facial hair, but don't doubt for one moment that we are looking at somebody's representation of a pamangku, its just that art trumps tradition. How can you create a hilt like Rocanice's if you don't control the whiskers?

Oops, sorry Alan, I meant the style of hairdressing (kind of diadem versus tiara), not the beard....

David · 1st February 2016, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

... but don't doubt for one moment that we are looking at somebody's representation of a pamangku, its just that art trumps tradition.

Given our previous discussion on the "Bayu" hilts how can we be sure beyond doubt that the artist's intention was to create pamangku here rather than it merely being an "artistic" work not completely connected to this character?

A. G. Maisey · 1st February 2016, 08:01 PM

Jean:- artistic expression; this is a hilt that was created purely for art:- if you need to stick gemstones onto it, you need an excuse to accommodate the gemstones.

David:- speaking only for myself, I'm quite confident that I'm looking at a figure that is intended to be a pamangku, my confidence is based in the fact that every figure of this type that I have ever seen and asked about has been identified by a Balinese person as a pamangku, many different Balinese people have been asked. As for everybody else, well, quite obviously they cannot be certain.

I rather feel that this particular pamangku style hilt is a pretty recent creation, I cannot recall ever having seen a truly old one.

Rocarnice · 2nd February 2016, 10:04 AM

Hi all,

Thank you very much for your higly interesting thoughts and insights on this Hilt.
The hilt is made of silver which turned black due to oxidation and is set with gold ornaments. More than 10 years ago an old Indonesian person approached me and gave it to me saying this hilt should be honoured and cared for as only priests of the highest caste (Brahmaan) may have it on the "Wilah" to be used for ceremonial purposes.
Anyway I feel personally strongly attached to it, and it feels like a soul that is with me. There seems to be something mystical about it. Meeting that old guy changed my life and that's what I am doing ever since, taking care of it...

1st February 2016, 10:58 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	Yep Jean, true:- Balinese priests don't usually sport Siciliano facial hair, but don't doubt for one moment that we are looking at somebody's representation of a pamangku, its just that art trumps tradition. How can you create a hilt like Rocanice's if you don't control the whiskers?

1st February 2016, 08:01 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	Jean:- artistic expression; this is a hilt that was created purely for art:- if you need to stick gemstones onto it, you need an excuse to accommodate the gemstones. David:- speaking only for myself, I'm quite confident that I'm looking at a figure that is intended to be a pamangku, my confidence is based in the fact that every figure of this type that I have ever seen and asked about has been identified by a Balinese person as a pamangku, many different Balinese people have been asked. As for everybody else, well, quite obviously they cannot be certain. I rather feel that this particular pamangku style hilt is a pretty recent creation, I cannot recall ever having seen a truly old one.

2nd February 2016, 10:04 AM	#5
Rocarnice Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5	Hi all, Thank you very much for your higly interesting thoughts and insights on this Hilt. The hilt is made of silver which turned black due to oxidation and is set with gold ornaments. More than 10 years ago an old Indonesian person approached me and gave it to me saying this hilt should be honoured and cared for as only priests of the highest caste (Brahmaan) may have it on the "Wilah" to be used for ceremonial purposes. Anyway I feel personally strongly attached to it, and it feels like a soul that is with me. There seems to be something mystical about it. Meeting that old guy changed my life and that's what I am doing ever since, taking care of it...