Matchlock accessories

kahnjar1 · 30th January 2016, 07:07 PM

Hi Marcus,
I think that both the conical holders are for holding the match cord. The one on the left likely for holding the cord in place otherwise it would just fall off the gun. The other for extinguishing the match or holding the hot end so that it does not go out.
Here are some other pics of a similar setup. The first 2 are of an Omani matchlock. The pierced holder is to retain the hot match and the other for extinguishing it.
The last is on an Indian matchlock and has a pricker as well as the match holder.
Stu

Pukka Bundook · 30th January 2016, 08:13 PM

Hello Marcus,

That looks a very nice matchlock.

Can you at some time show us some more of it? and details of the engraving behind the breech?

I think the slim conical holder is for the pick to clean the touchhole. This pick would probably be attached to the chain, as it was a small item and could easily be lost.

The larger conical piece was I'm sure as Stu says, for extinguishing the match.

Do you have any ideas where in India it originates, and when?
We normally are in the dark on these, and it seems 18th/19th Century covers most of everything!
How is the bore?
Again, I would like to see pictures of all the details.

Richard.

Marcus · 30th January 2016, 08:20 PM

I previously posted this for sale for an acquaintance but there was only one offer that was far from the asking price. I made my own offer which was accepted. Here are the pictures on the swap forum.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=20757

kahnjar1 · 30th January 2016, 08:51 PM

I notice that in the "Sale" pics there is another piece attached which is not now shown.
I agree with Richard but am not sure that the horizontal tube is for the pricker. There MUST be some sort of holder to attach the match to the gun otherwise it would just fall out and be lost.
Maybe the "missing" piece is the match holder?
Stu

Marcus · 30th January 2016, 09:18 PM

Thanks, I'll have to see if that can be found.

Pukka Bundook · 31st January 2016, 01:54 AM

Stu,

To quote you;
"There MUST be some sort of holder to attach the match to the gun otherwise it would just fall out and be lost. "

I don't know that much about matchlocks, but can't see how the match can be lost, as it is wrapped around the stock behind the breech, and the other end is in the jaws of the serpent.
European matchlocks have no match holder, apart form the serpent, and the match was often wrapped around either the barrel or the arm.

I suppose if a very short length of match was used this could be a possibility, but such a short length would be unusual and the jaws would hold it well enough. Am I missing something obvious?? (Wouldn't be the first time!!)

Marcus,
Thank you for the link to the other photos. Very kind of you!

Best regards
Richard.

kahnjar1 · 31st January 2016, 03:43 AM

Hi Richard,
Yes you are of course right. I was not thinking about the match being wrapped around the stock, as I have not seen any Indian matchlocks with wrapped match cords as one usually sees on Omani ones. My mind was set on the pic at the beginning of this thread where the cord is only a short piece.
Stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Stu,

To quote you;
"There MUST be some sort of holder to attach the match to the gun otherwise it would just fall out and be lost. "

I don't know that much about matchlocks, but can't see how the match can be lost, as it is wrapped around the stock behind the breech, and the other end is in the jaws of the serpent.
European matchlocks have no match holder, apart form the serpent, and the match was often wrapped around either the barrel or the arm.

I suppose if a very short length of match was used this could be a possibility, but such a short length would be unusual and the jaws would hold it well enough. Am I missing something obvious?? (Wouldn't be the first time!!)

Marcus,
Thank you for the link to the other photos. Very kind of you!

Best regards
Richard.

Marcus · 5th February 2016, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

I notice that in the "Sale" pics there is another piece attached which is not now shown.
I agree with Richard but am not sure that the horizontal tube is for the pricker. There MUST be some sort of holder to attach the match to the gun otherwise it would just fall out and be lost.
Maybe the "missing" piece is the match holder?
Stu

It found its way to me. It looks more like a carburetor part than a gun part, hollow with reed like cutouts. Probably meant to slide up and down to change air or fluid mix. No clue why it was with the gun when I first saw it.

rickystl · 6th February 2016, 08:13 PM

Marcus:
Thanks for starting this Thread and Posting all the photos of these accessories. I've been able to add to my knowledge of these guns.
I've often wondered why some of the pans were made without covers. It appears that many were made with seperate covers secured with a chain versus pinned on the pan as per the above photos. That could answer the question. Thanks again for starting this Thread.
Rick.

rickystl · 6th February 2016, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus

It found its way to me. It looks more like a carburetor part than a gun part, hollow with reed like cutouts. Probably meant to slide up and down to change air or fluid mix. No clue why it was with the gun when I first saw it.

Marcus: This is a real mystery. Hmmmm. I have no idea, but it seems it would have something to do with the matchcord

The patina seems to match with the other accessories. But there has to be a reason for the reed style cut vs. a simple hole. Just don't know.

Richard: Sounds like you are planning to make a "shootable" Torador (?) If so, that's great. Now I won't feel so lonely. LOL.

The gunsmith said he will be working on my barrel before the end of March. (have to wait in line with everyone else).

Rick.

rickystl · 6th February 2016, 08:32 PM

As long as we're on this subject, here is another small mystery I've yet to rationalize. Here is a photo of my Torador and another photo. Notice on the right hand wrist area there is a hole drilled. The hole was intentionally drilled, but nothing in it. Any idea for the purpose?

Rick.

Pukka Bundook · 6th February 2016, 08:37 PM

Rick,

Yes indeed! I have wanted to make up one for shooting for some time!

I Think Marcus may be correct on his carb part, as it has been lathe-turned by the marks on it, not hand -made.

Look forward to progress repots on your barrel!

R.
Edited to say our posts crossed, Rick.

Hole in stock;
Possibly to push the loose end of the matchcord in, so it didn't unwind from around the stock?? Maybe try it and see....

These little intrigues are interesting! and at one time would be Common knowledge.
(Like someone in the future finding a lace-up shoe with no lace, and trying to figure out what the holes were for!)

30th January 2016, 07:07 PM	#1
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,810	Hi Marcus, I think that both the conical holders are for holding the match cord. The one on the left likely for holding the cord in place otherwise it would just fall off the gun. The other for extinguishing the match or holding the hot end so that it does not go out. Here are some other pics of a similar setup. The first 2 are of an Omani matchlock. The pierced holder is to retain the hot match and the other for extinguishing it. The last is on an Indian matchlock and has a pricker as well as the match holder. Stu Attached Images

30th January 2016, 08:20 PM	#3
Marcus Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 420	more pictures I previously posted this for sale for an acquaintance but there was only one offer that was far from the asking price. I made my own offer which was accepted. Here are the pictures on the swap forum. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=20757

30th January 2016, 08:51 PM	#4
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,810	I notice that in the "Sale" pics there is another piece attached which is not now shown. I agree with Richard but am not sure that the horizontal tube is for the pricker. There MUST be some sort of holder to attach the match to the gun otherwise it would just fall out and be lost. Maybe the "missing" piece is the match holder? Stu Attached Images

30th January 2016, 09:18 PM	#5
Marcus Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 420	missing piece Thanks, I'll have to see if that can be found.

6th February 2016, 08:32 PM	#11
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,633	As long as we're on this subject, here is another small mystery I've yet to rationalize. Here is a photo of my Torador and another photo. Notice on the right hand wrist area there is a hole drilled. The hole was intentionally drilled, but nothing in it. Any idea for the purpose? Rick. Attached Images

30th January 2016, 08:13 PM	#2
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Hello Marcus, That looks a very nice matchlock. Can you at some time show us some more of it? and details of the engraving behind the breech? I think the slim conical holder is for the pick to clean the touchhole. This pick would probably be attached to the chain, as it was a small item and could easily be lost. The larger conical piece was I'm sure as Stu says, for extinguishing the match. Do you have any ideas where in India it originates, and when? We normally are in the dark on these, and it seems 18th/19th Century covers most of everything! How is the bore? Again, I would like to see pictures of all the details. Richard.

31st January 2016, 01:54 AM	#6
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Stu, To quote you; "There MUST be some sort of holder to attach the match to the gun otherwise it would just fall out and be lost. " I don't know that much about matchlocks, but can't see how the match can be lost, as it is wrapped around the stock behind the breech, and the other end is in the jaws of the serpent. European matchlocks have no match holder, apart form the serpent, and the match was often wrapped around either the barrel or the arm. I suppose if a very short length of match was used this could be a possibility, but such a short length would be unusual and the jaws would hold it well enough. Am I missing something obvious?? (Wouldn't be the first time!!) Marcus, Thank you for the link to the other photos. Very kind of you! Best regards Richard.

6th February 2016, 08:13 PM	#9
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,633	Marcus: Thanks for starting this Thread and Posting all the photos of these accessories. I've been able to add to my knowledge of these guns. I've often wondered why some of the pans were made without covers. It appears that many were made with seperate covers secured with a chain versus pinned on the pan as per the above photos. That could answer the question. Thanks again for starting this Thread. Rick.

6th February 2016, 08:37 PM	#12
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Rick, Yes indeed! I have wanted to make up one for shooting for some time! I Think Marcus may be correct on his carb part, as it has been lathe-turned by the marks on it, not hand -made. Look forward to progress repots on your barrel! R. Edited to say our posts crossed, Rick. Hole in stock; Possibly to push the loose end of the matchcord in, so it didn't unwind from around the stock?? Maybe try it and see.... These little intrigues are interesting! and at one time would be Common knowledge. (Like someone in the future finding a lace-up shoe with no lace, and trying to figure out what the holes were for!)