Keris Humor!

A. G. Maisey · 29th January 2016, 09:17 PM

Harry, I do understand your position, and the point that you are making, however, when we engage in a study of the keris, most especially the keris as it is understood in Jawa, we are obliged to step outside the framework of norms that govern acceptability in our own society, and consider the norms that are acceptable in a particular segment of a different society.

In fact, your remarks, and your obvious distaste for this humour would not be at all out of place amongst the Santri class of Javanese society, that is to say, the merchant class that comprises the bulk of highly committed Muslims.

As a generality these people are more or less opposed to many of the ethics and principles that are inherent in the Javanese keris systems and associated iconography. The social parameters for the Santri class are more closely related to the social parameters of traditional Middle Eastern patriarchal societies.

However, the keris and its social and cultural position do not belong to the Santri class, the keris is firmly locked into the belief systems that are a part of the indigenous upper classes, and the indigenous serving classes. That is to say keris culture in its variant forms is associated with the true Javanese people of the land and their urban descendants, and with the ruling classes of Jawa.

I do understand that for a new-comer to the World of the Keris it can be a bit of shock to the system when the sexual symbolism of the keris is revealed, however, the way in which the cycle of life on Earth is maintained is inevitably associated with sexuality, and within Javanese-Hindu culture, this understanding is inseparable from the worship of God and ancestors.

Yes, David's little cartoon comment is rather less than holy, but it would not be seen as out of place by a Javanese farmer.

Rafngard · 30th January 2016, 01:56 AM

Alan,

Thank you for that.
You are, as ever, a valuable resource to this forum.

Thanks,
Leif

iskender · 17th February 2016, 08:54 PM

I love indian weapons,i own a interesting book HINDU ARMS AND RITUAL, Arms and Armor from India 1400-1865,i try to be a good collector,i want to see it all in real.I got a visa ,took a flight and started my travel.To all who are snubbed quickly never do that!!! Warning never ever go to these places in your live : "Khayuraho in Madhya Pradesh" "Markandeshwar Temple in Shahbad Markanda" "Padawali Temple in Maharashra" "Ranakpur Jain Temple in Rajasthan" or the "Sun Temple in Orissa" and many more! Very dangerous! (I now what i talk about,i have been there many times, i am half swiss, we are serious people) greetings iskender

ariel · 17th February 2016, 10:15 PM

Bladed weapons were symbols of masculinity from times immemorial. Not for nothing swords in Freudian psychology were connected with "penis". On the other hand, scabbards were feminine: in Polish, Belorussian, Bulgarian, Hebrew etc. the word for "scabbard" shares its meaning with "vagina".
No reason to be prudish: we are talking about traditions of hundreds and thousands years old.

RobT · 18th February 2016, 02:24 AM

Ariel,
Quite correct. Sheath in Latin is vagina or vaginae.
Sincerely,
RobT

Green · 18th February 2016, 03:49 AM

IMO it's rather nice to lighten things up a bit with weaponary jokes although i guess some would find them er..blunt and are wont to give er... sharp comments.....

ariel · 18th February 2016, 07:58 PM

The yellow-handled dagger in the monk's chest is a.... Bollock knife:-)

17th February 2016, 08:54 PM	#3
iskender Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 60	warning for all !!! I love indian weapons,i own a interesting book HINDU ARMS AND RITUAL, Arms and Armor from India 1400-1865,i try to be a good collector,i want to see it all in real.I got a visa ,took a flight and started my travel.To all who are snubbed quickly never do that!!! Warning never ever go to these places in your live : "Khayuraho in Madhya Pradesh" "Markandeshwar Temple in Shahbad Markanda" "Padawali Temple in Maharashra" "Ranakpur Jain Temple in Rajasthan" or the "Sun Temple in Orissa" and many more! Very dangerous! (I now what i talk about,i have been there many times, i am half swiss, we are serious people) greetings iskender

17th February 2016, 10:15 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Bladed weapons were symbols of masculinity from times immemorial. Not for nothing swords in Freudian psychology were connected with "penis". On the other hand, scabbards were feminine: in Polish, Belorussian, Bulgarian, Hebrew etc. the word for "scabbard" shares its meaning with "vagina". No reason to be prudish: we are talking about traditions of hundreds and thousands years old. Last edited by ariel; 18th February 2016 at 08:01 PM.

18th February 2016, 02:24 AM	#5
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 534	Latin is Even Closer Ariel, Quite correct. Sheath in Latin is vagina or vaginae. Sincerely, RobT

18th February 2016, 03:49 AM	#6
Green Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Malaysia Posts: 320	IMO it's rather nice to lighten things up a bit with weaponary jokes although i guess some would find them er..blunt and are wont to give er... sharp comments..... Attached Images

29th January 2016, 09:17 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Harry, I do understand your position, and the point that you are making, however, when we engage in a study of the keris, most especially the keris as it is understood in Jawa, we are obliged to step outside the framework of norms that govern acceptability in our own society, and consider the norms that are acceptable in a particular segment of a different society. In fact, your remarks, and your obvious distaste for this humour would not be at all out of place amongst the Santri class of Javanese society, that is to say, the merchant class that comprises the bulk of highly committed Muslims. As a generality these people are more or less opposed to many of the ethics and principles that are inherent in the Javanese keris systems and associated iconography. The social parameters for the Santri class are more closely related to the social parameters of traditional Middle Eastern patriarchal societies. However, the keris and its social and cultural position do not belong to the Santri class, the keris is firmly locked into the belief systems that are a part of the indigenous upper classes, and the indigenous serving classes. That is to say keris culture in its variant forms is associated with the true Javanese people of the land and their urban descendants, and with the ruling classes of Jawa. I do understand that for a new-comer to the World of the Keris it can be a bit of shock to the system when the sexual symbolism of the keris is revealed, however, the way in which the cycle of life on Earth is maintained is inevitably associated with sexuality, and within Javanese-Hindu culture, this understanding is inseparable from the worship of God and ancestors. Yes, David's little cartoon comment is rather less than holy, but it would not be seen as out of place by a Javanese farmer.

30th January 2016, 01:56 AM	#2
Rafngard Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Minneapolis,MN Posts: 348	Alan, Thank you for that. You are, as ever, a valuable resource to this forum. Thanks, Leif

18th February 2016, 07:58 PM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	The yellow-handled dagger in the monk's chest is a.... Bollock knife:-)