Origins of this yatagan.

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by Helleri

This is probably the least helpful comment. But when in it's scabbard, it looks like a fish...just sayin'.

It's not crazy at all as a lot of Ottoman scabbards have a terminal with a fish head or sea monster head. Just note that the double tip is maybe a symbol of the zulfikar...very common amongst arm makers in the Balkans...

[Battara]

Thanks for the close ups. Now I see that this is truly more unusual than I originally thought. Though still leaning Balkan, it now does not seem as Balkan as I thought now that I see these later picture close ups.

Regarding the 2nd example, what region does it come from in the Ottoman Empire?

Also I agree with Kubur regarding the fish/monster scabbard finial. Quite common on Ottoman yataghans, both on sword and dagger styles.

[ariel]

The one with a silver handle has round non-striated red stones ( corals?) .
I recall that Elgood mentioned it as a specific sign of manufacture in Foca.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Battara

Thanks for the close ups. Now I see that this is truly more unusual than I originally thought. Though still leaning Balkan, it now does not seem as Balkan as I thought now that I see these later picture close ups.

Regarding the 2nd example, what region does it come from in the Ottoman Empire?

Also I agree with Kubur regarding the fish/monster scabbard finial. Quite common on Ottoman yataghans, both on sword and dagger styles.

Thanks to everyone who commented.

Is this the yatagan you mean (Regarding the 2nd example, what region does it come from in the Ottoman Empire?), if so it is from the Met.


Ottoman (Anatolian or Balkan) yatagan / yataghan, dated 1802–3, steel, silver, gold, coral, Length 29 in. (73.66 cm) Length of blade, 23 1/8 in. (58.72 cm), Wt. 3 lb. 8 oz. (1588 g). Met Museum. The yatagan was popular throughout the Ottoman Empire. It is distinguished by a single-edged blade that curves slightly inward and by a hilt with no guard and two flared wings at the pommel.

[TVV]

I am sorry but am I the only one here who feels we are debating late 20th century (at best) fittings? Referring to the yataghan starting this thread and the one in post 18, not the Foca examples of course.

Teodor

[ariel]

Theodor,
IMHO, you might be correct re. wooden handle and scabbard but the blade and metal handle fittings ( again, IMHO) seem to be old.
I am wondering whence it came to the market. I have seen so many crude and thoughtless renovations from Bulgaria....

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by TVV

I am sorry but am I the only one here who feels we are debating late 20th century (at best) fittings? Referring to the yataghan starting this thread and the one in post 18, not the Foca examples of course.

Teodor

Anything is possible when it comes to such items, do you have a particular reason for thinking that this is recent work, have you seen similar examples?

[estcrh]

The engraving on both blades and the hilts seem to be quite similar in my opinion.

[TVV]

Originally Posted by estcrh

Anything is possible when it comes to such items, do you have a particular reason for thinking that this is recent work, have you seen similar examples?

Ariel already summed it up nicely: while the bolster and the hilt band may be original to the blades, the wooden hilts and the scabbards are most likely modern. The material on the hilt is wrong, which is a result of traditional materials such as walrus ivory or dark horn being hard to obtain. And the style of the decoration is way off as well: it looks like a modern artist's own interpretation, as opposed to period craftsmen who usually repeated a few motifs, found across a wide range of surviving specimens. Finally, the workmanship of the scabbard metal parts is too crude to believe it could have passed the standards of the esnafs (guilds) back in the day.

Now, this does not suggest any attempt to deceive. I just consider these to be a modern attempt at restoration.

Teodor

P.S. Ariel is correct that there is a multitude of "artists" who restore old weapons in Bulgaria, with results varying in quality and appearance. I am also sure that Bulgaria is not unique in this regard. I can provide examples, but I do not feel modern replicas should be the focus of these fora.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by TVV

Now, this does not suggest any attempt to deceive. I just consider these to be a modern attempt at restoration.

I can provide examples, but I do not feel modern replicas should be the focus of these fora.

I do not think anyone here will object to examples that can be learned from being posted.