Two new (to me) Keris from Epray for comment

[David]

Originally Posted by asomotif

I am not sure about the "iras" scabbard.
A picture without the pendok can help to be sure.

Possibly, but that line looks more like a deep scratch in the wood. Seems a bit low and at a strange angel to be a joint between gander and wrongko.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by David

Possibly, but that line looks more like a deep scratch in the wood. Seems a bit low and at a strange angel to be a joint between gander and wrongko.

Hi David,
I agree that the warangka looks iras and about what you say about these 2 krisses. I attach the pic of a better madurese "soldier" kris for reference.
Regards

[A. G. Maisey]

A gabilan keris if normal size, a brahmana rsi if large size.

Examples in Suminep kraton museum.

The originals, such as Jean's, were not souvenir productions, but a legitimate Madurese form, probably a folk art, used by the common people, this is supposition on my part, I have no evidence to back this up, only what I have gathered from local conversations.

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

The originals, such as Jean's, were not souvenir productions, but a legitimate Madurese form, probably a folk art, used by the common people, this is supposition on my part, I have no evidence to back this up, only what I have gathered from local conversations.

Yes Alan, i have always imaged that this style dress had an origin as a legitimate form, but like you cannot show any evidence to prove the case. But i have seen a few really lovely carvings of these lion sheaths that don't look touristy at all. I believe you have posted some nice examples yourself in the past.

[harrywagner]

Originally Posted by David

Possibly, but that line looks more like a deep scratch in the wood. Seems a bit low and at a strange angel to be a joint between gander and wrongko.

Maybe, but from a woodworkers perspective that is exactly how you would want to do it. The angle increases the surface area of the joint which makes it stronger.

[David]

Originally Posted by harrywagner

Maybe, but from a woodworkers perspective that is exactly how you would want to do it. The angle increases the surface area of the joint which makes it stronger.

Harry, while i do understand what you are saying, if you spend some time looking at how the gander is generally fitted to the wrongko in these sheaths from this area i think you will see that it is just not the general woodworker's perspective from this culture.

[Gustav]

Actually the place and angle for a joint line here is not unusual, for Solo style wrongko. For a better taste the angle could be perhaps even steeper and the line located a bit deeper.

[David]

Originally Posted by Gustav

Actually the place and angle for a joint line here is not unusual, for Solo style wrongko. For a better taste the angle could be perhaps even steeper and the line located a bit deeper.

You will have to show me examples of that Gustav. On most of the solo sheaths that i have the angle of the joint is less severe if there is an angle at all and the joint does not take place this far down the gandar. With some the joint is right up into the wrongko.
I am still pretty convinced, however, that this sheath is all one piece. Perhaps Leif will get back to us soon to confirm one way or the other.

[Gustav]

David, there are many examples in Solyoms book on pages 41, 42 and 47 and should be more in Haryoguritnos.

[Rick]

I can't disagree Gustav, but I think, in this particular case, that it is as David says: a deep scratch.