Question on tulwar blade construction

estcrh · 14th January 2016, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony PP

Sorry to not agree with everybody but--- Unlikely to be a scarf joint. A scarf joint is when both ends are cut at an long angle and one side then slides over the other. This method is good for silver braze lead joints and if done neatly is nearly invisible. If you try to weld a scarf it is impossible to get full penetration and only the ends get welded. The blade in question has I think been joined by cutting each side into a v then welding. Pity that the welder has not found a better tip so now there is three different shades on one blade. If I do a weld I try to find a close match and use strips of steel from the replacement bit to use as the welding material Ok, never perfect, it is a repair but much better way than the sad blade being discussed.

Here is a period example of what would typically be called a "scarf weld". The blade is wootz and smaller part attached to the hilt is mono steel.

ALEX · 14th January 2016, 05:14 PM

Estcrh, nice example and fotos. Does scarf weld usually placed closer to the middle of the blade to serve the purpose of making it less likely to snap on impact (I think this is what it was intended for). If so, the example you show also could be a repair, i.e. not originally-intended. What do you think?

Roland, I second your opinion about wootz repair. the smith was able not to affect it at all right near the mend line, and that is quite a feat.

Jens Nordlunde · 14th January 2016, 09:47 PM

To my opinion the scarf welding mostly have been made by an artist, but what Eric shows is a bit more artistic than most of the scarf weldings I have seen.
However in this case the smith does not seem to have been an artist, but we does not know, if he had to do the repair over night as the battle was not finished yet, and had to go on the next day.

estcrh · 17th January 2016, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALEX

Estcrh, nice example and fotos. Does scarf weld usually placed closer to the middle of the blade to serve the purpose of making it less likely to snap on impact (I think this is what it was intended for). If so, the example you show also could be a repair, i.e. not originally-intended. What do you think?

Alex, I have not seen enough Indian blades that have been welded in this way to be able to make any kind of reasonable statement on whether this was planned or a repair. I do know that welds of this type were noted in Viking swords, here is a quote from Swords of the Viking Age, by Ian G. Peirce, Ewart Oakeshott, 2002. Note that the amount of steel projecting from the hilt of Viking age swords were the blade was deliberately scarf welded for strength is said to be from 4 cm to 12 cm (1.57 in to 4.72 in).

Pukka Bundook · 17th January 2016, 02:30 PM

Now Eric,

In the cases you just quote above, Do you think these were repairs, rather than a technique used in manufacture?

To me it Sounds like a repair.

I do have one broad-bladed tulwar that was repaired at some time in its working life. Very well done as well. The break is just forward of the centre of the blade.
I will see if I can find a picture.

estcrh · 17th January 2016, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Now Eric,

In the cases you just quote above, Do you think these were repairs, rather than a technique used in manufacture?

To me it Sounds like a repair.

This is a known technique, and not only for swords.

The prehistory of metallurgy in the British Isles by R. F. Tylecote, 1986.

Quote:

It would seem that scramasaxes were made by scarf welding-on a steel edge, as shown in the French example.

How about this Indian axe, a hard steel edge with the rest a softer metal.

estcrh · 17th January 2016, 03:18 PM

Indian horse head tulwar with wootz blade

Quote:

The blade is a typical Indian scarf welded blade, but in this case, both irons used are the best quality. The hard crystalline Wootz blade has been fused to a softer, more flexible heel of Pattern Welded Damascus, with a high contrast pattern. The weld is complex, and a feat of difficult engineering according to metallurgists, but it has been beautifully achieved, with only a small lamination flaw.

ariel · 17th January 2016, 03:24 PM

The tabar : is it what is called inserted edge? How would it differ from scarf welding?

14th January 2016, 05:14 PM	#2
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Estcrh, nice example and fotos. Does scarf weld usually placed closer to the middle of the blade to serve the purpose of making it less likely to snap on impact (I think this is what it was intended for). If so, the example you show also could be a repair, i.e. not originally-intended. What do you think? Roland, I second your opinion about wootz repair. the smith was able not to affect it at all right near the mend line, and that is quite a feat.

14th January 2016, 09:47 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	To my opinion the scarf welding mostly have been made by an artist, but what Eric shows is a bit more artistic than most of the scarf weldings I have seen. However in this case the smith does not seem to have been an artist, but we does not know, if he had to do the repair over night as the battle was not finished yet, and had to go on the next day.

17th January 2016, 02:30 PM	#5
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Now Eric, In the cases you just quote above, Do you think these were repairs, rather than a technique used in manufacture? To me it Sounds like a repair. I do have one broad-bladed tulwar that was repaired at some time in its working life. Very well done as well. The break is just forward of the centre of the blade. I will see if I can find a picture.

17th January 2016, 03:24 PM	#8
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	The tabar : is it what is called inserted edge? How would it differ from scarf welding?