Tipu Sword

B.I · 10th January 2005, 10:38 PM

oh, i forgot. the blade is sheathed but it is straight and wide. the photo shows a slight tilt to one side, but not sure if this is the case or its an optical illusion.
i'll risk showing the kris on the cabinet, knowing we will struggle to keep this post indian if i do

Jens Nordlunde · 11th January 2005, 09:04 AM

Hi Brian,

I don’t doubt that the quality of the Tipu sword is very high, my comment on the business of the design is my personnel opinion of designs in general, and I might very well change my mind if I had had an opportunity to see the sword.
The sword display is very nice, and so is the keris. BTW of the mails I have read about kerises I don’t remember to have seen any references to kerieses being used in India – they were, so maybe the keris you show ‘fits’ into the picture. In Robert Elgoods new book there are pictures showing warriors armed with a keris and a tulwar.

Jens

B.I · 11th January 2005, 12:41 PM

i was teasing you jens, i know that decoration is down to opinion only, and i know that you will be suitably impressed if you saw this sword in life. who knows, maybe i'll get a chance to show it to you at some point.
i think you tread on dangerous ground, mr nordlunde. the keris in india? we stand a good chance of being flogged alive on this forum

an interesting note. herman goetz had full access to the bikaner amroury, and its accession notes (what little there was) as he wrote a book under the patronage of the maharja at the time. apparantly there is a sword owned by akbar in the armoury. it has a persian blade with an inscribed cartouche (no reference to the inscription stating its ownership) and a malaysian hilt! (cross piece is missing but hilt and blade show the witness marks of tis existence).
i dont know where the akbar attribution came from, but the malaysian hilt was no doubt adopted from a piece that was admired at the time, if not by akbar then by some important moghul/rajput.

Jens Nordlunde · 11th January 2005, 01:55 PM

Hi Brian,

Hmm yes, it occurred to me that you did try to pull my leg – now, which leg was it, the wooden one or the other?
Maybe I will be flogged, but let the ones doing so prove me wrong, it is all there in clear pictures, besides for the interesting text Robert Elgood writes about the kris in the Glossary.
I have only, very briefly, been the owner of a kris with a golden hilt, but that is many years ago – maybe I should have kept it.
The knife in the Bikarner armoury with the Persian blade and Malayan hilt, could have been a gift from someone, a pity that Herman Goetz did not draw it or at least describe it more in detail.

Jens

B.I · 11th January 2005, 02:13 PM

have i ever let you down, jens?
it took me years to find this book and it cost the price of a wooden leg but was worth it.

Jens Nordlunde · 11th January 2005, 02:25 PM

The book must have been expensive, as a wooden leg is rather pricy these days, especially if it has to be of hard wood – only glad it is the leg, and not the head.
That is a most peculiar sword you are showing, in a way a pity for both the hilt and the blade, but interesting all the same. Do you know if the hilt and the blade is of the same age?

Jens

B.I · 11th January 2005, 02:48 PM

the blade i would guess to be 17thC, but my book is marginally better than the image i've shown, so can only speculate. the small stamps were used throughout 200+ years of sword manafacture and so wont offer a clue. the inscription seems genuine and not filled in like many of fiegels but again, speculation. even if the inscription is old, then who knows if it as old as the blade itself.
maybe the hilt will offer a clue, but this is not my area and couldnt even hazzard a guess. i will find out were the sword is, as there are two museums in bikaner and maybe track down a better image. however, it may be in the maharajas private collection (which i doubt) and then access is impossible.

Jens Nordlunde · 11th January 2005, 04:15 PM

It would be interesting to see a better picture, but which of these museums are you referring to?
Museums of Rajasthan : Ajmer Government Museum | Alwar Government Museum | Amer (Jaipur) Archaeological Museum | Virat Nagar Museum | Bharatpur Government Museum | Bikaner Fort Museum | Shri Sardul Museum and Anup Library | Ganga Golden Jubilee Museum

Jens

10th January 2005, 10:38 PM	#1
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	blade oh, i forgot. the blade is sheathed but it is straight and wide. the photo shows a slight tilt to one side, but not sure if this is the case or its an optical illusion. i'll risk showing the kris on the cabinet, knowing we will struggle to keep this post indian if i do Attached Images

11th January 2005, 12:41 PM	#3
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	dangerous ground i was teasing you jens, i know that decoration is down to opinion only, and i know that you will be suitably impressed if you saw this sword in life. who knows, maybe i'll get a chance to show it to you at some point. i think you tread on dangerous ground, mr nordlunde. the keris in india? we stand a good chance of being flogged alive on this forum an interesting note. herman goetz had full access to the bikaner amroury, and its accession notes (what little there was) as he wrote a book under the patronage of the maharja at the time. apparantly there is a sword owned by akbar in the armoury. it has a persian blade with an inscribed cartouche (no reference to the inscription stating its ownership) and a malaysian hilt! (cross piece is missing but hilt and blade show the witness marks of tis existence). i dont know where the akbar attribution came from, but the malaysian hilt was no doubt adopted from a piece that was admired at the time, if not by akbar then by some important moghul/rajput.

11th January 2005, 02:13 PM	#5
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	wooden leg have i ever let you down, jens? it took me years to find this book and it cost the price of a wooden leg but was worth it. Attached Images

11th January 2005, 02:48 PM	#7
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	age the blade i would guess to be 17thC, but my book is marginally better than the image i've shown, so can only speculate. the small stamps were used throughout 200+ years of sword manafacture and so wont offer a clue. the inscription seems genuine and not filled in like many of fiegels but again, speculation. even if the inscription is old, then who knows if it as old as the blade itself. maybe the hilt will offer a clue, but this is not my area and couldnt even hazzard a guess. i will find out were the sword is, as there are two museums in bikaner and maybe track down a better image. however, it may be in the maharajas private collection (which i doubt) and then access is impossible.

11th January 2005, 09:04 AM	#2
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Brian, I don’t doubt that the quality of the Tipu sword is very high, my comment on the business of the design is my personnel opinion of designs in general, and I might very well change my mind if I had had an opportunity to see the sword. The sword display is very nice, and so is the keris. BTW of the mails I have read about kerises I don’t remember to have seen any references to kerieses being used in India – they were, so maybe the keris you show ‘fits’ into the picture. In Robert Elgoods new book there are pictures showing warriors armed with a keris and a tulwar. Jens

11th January 2005, 01:55 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Brian, Hmm yes, it occurred to me that you did try to pull my leg – now, which leg was it, the wooden one or the other? Maybe I will be flogged, but let the ones doing so prove me wrong, it is all there in clear pictures, besides for the interesting text Robert Elgood writes about the kris in the Glossary. I have only, very briefly, been the owner of a kris with a golden hilt, but that is many years ago – maybe I should have kept it. The knife in the Bikarner armoury with the Persian blade and Malayan hilt, could have been a gift from someone, a pity that Herman Goetz did not draw it or at least describe it more in detail. Jens

11th January 2005, 02:25 PM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	The book must have been expensive, as a wooden leg is rather pricy these days, especially if it has to be of hard wood – only glad it is the leg, and not the head. That is a most peculiar sword you are showing, in a way a pity for both the hilt and the blade, but interesting all the same. Do you know if the hilt and the blade is of the same age? Jens

11th January 2005, 04:15 PM	#8
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	It would be interesting to see a better picture, but which of these museums are you referring to? Museums of Rajasthan : Ajmer Government Museum \| Alwar Government Museum \| Amer (Jaipur) Archaeological Museum \| Virat Nagar Museum \| Bharatpur Government Museum \| Bikaner Fort Museum \| Shri Sardul Museum and Anup Library \| Ganga Golden Jubilee Museum Jens