Candi Sukuh carving, keris mythology

[David]

Originally Posted by Pusaka

David, from my point of view it is the Muslims who embraced pre Islamic internal practices in Indonesia that were Taoist and Vedic in origin. Muhammad was no yogi, you cant find these things in the quran, they are absent in arab nations which says something. The spiritual practices in Kebatinan such as meditation, concentration on energy centres (chakras), breathing exercises (pranayama) all of that is not Islamic in origin.
The goal of Kebatinan is to develop rasa, the intuitive knowing of the heart, that word Rasa is Sanskrit in origin.

Pusaka, are you at all familiar with Sufism? Meditation and breathe control are indeed a part of the practice. It is the mystical aspects of Islam (Sufism) that is embraced in Kebabtinan, not what is practiced in mundane forms of that religion.
I do think that this side debate we are having has absolutely nothing to do with the aspects of the keris that either you or i wish to be discussing however. Why don't we turn our attention back there. Perhaps you could put forth exactly what it is you are hoping to discover through this line of inquiry around Candi Sukuh in regards to the keris.

[Pusaka]

Originally Posted by David

Pusaka, are you at all familiar with Sufism? Meditation and breathe control are indeed a part of the practice. It is the mystical aspects of Islam (Sufism) that is embraced in Kebabtinan, not what is practiced in mundane forms of that religion.
I do think that this side debate we are having has absolutely nothing to do with the aspects of the keris that either you or i wish to be discussing however. Why don't we turn our attention back there. Perhaps you could put forth exactly what it is you are hoping to discover through this line of inquiry around Candi Sukuh in regards to the keris.

Your right, so I agree to disagree on this one
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...dom%22&f=false


At the moment my main interest is to find out if this mythical empu Ramayadi was a figure in hindu mythology and if so I want to know what he is known by in Indian texts. It would appear to be so because I read he also made Krishnas chariot.

[A. G. Maisey]

Pusaka, may I enquire exactly where you read that Ramayadi made Krishna's chariot?

[Pusaka]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Pusaka, may I enquire exactly where you read that Ramayadi made Krishna's chariot?

I have been searching for the last few days trying to track down if he is a character in Hindu text, one text I came across said he made Krishna's chariot and another text said he made Vishnu's chakram disc...I'm still searching and have not pinned this down yet...but I will

[A. G. Maisey]

Thanks for your response Pusaka. Do you recall the names of your sources?

I'm asking, because there is a lot of very dubious information available these days, most especially from web sources. We need to not only find the information sought, but also to verify the source. The web has made a lot of things easier, but at the same time more difficult.

That line of descent first appears in Pangeran Wijil's babad "Silsilah Mpu Tanah Jawa".

It does not appear as a strict line of descent, but must be composed from an analysis of the text. Because of this, there are variations in interpretation. The analysis that must be undertaken is not easy and requires strict adherence to analytical principles.

A further difficulty is that this babad is in Hanacaraka, which means that for a long time, translation to a Romanised text, or even to B.I. has been required before the analysis could be undertaken.

There is some disagreement as to which Pangeran Wijil wrote the babad. Some say it was written in Kartosuro before the move to Surakarta, others say it was written at a later date in Surakarta.

The text itself is very probably the foundation upon which the much later works that generated the Surakarta Tangguh System were built.

[Pusaka]

"Bathara Anggajali is the son Bathara Ramadi / Ramayadi, an expert blacksmith who was appointed as a god. Just like his father, also a blacksmith Bathara Anggajali reliable and skilled. Bathara Anggajali served atop Mount Jamurdipa to create powerful weapons belonged to the gods. In addition Bathara Anggajali also merge weapons and spell-spell of the evil kings and knights in the crater Chandradimuka. In the beginning, before being appointed to the gods, MPU Anggajali is a favorite of King Mahapunggung blacksmith, king Medhang Kamulan.


The weapons which were the work of Bathara Anggajali include:
-Trisula And Kyai Cis belonging Bathara Jaludara Teachers.
-Bajra (Lightning spear) belonging Bathara Indra.
-Busur Wijaya and Armor belonging Bathara Sun Solar.
-Pedang Chandrasa belongs Bathara Chandra.
-Cakra Baskara / Sudarshana Chakra belong Bathara Vishnu.
-Golok Way belongs Bathara Rudra and Bathara Yamadipati.
-Keris Kaladite-Kalanadhah of canine right-left and Arrow Pasopati of the tongue Bathara Kala.
-Kyai Kuntawijaya Danu previously belonged to Arjuna that eventually captured by Karna."
http://caritawayang.blogspot.com/201...i-bathara.html

[Pusaka]

A.G.Maisey, thanks for the info. I am stuck to using the web and even worse translated versions.

My interest was inspired by recalling what a guru told me, he said his teacher the sat guru believed the first keris was made by empu ramayadi under instruction of a saint who taught him the use of the 16 metals.

Well it stuck in my head for years and then recently I discovered there is text called: Caritaning Wesi saking panembahan karang (Treatise on the qualities, physical and spiritual, of diffrent irons used in forging of keris. The teachings of panembahan karang (Bathara Mudhik) to Empu Ramayadi)

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...page&q&f=false


So it would appear the story I was told is at least legitimate "mythology"

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes, legitimate mythology, certainly.

A nice turn of phrase.

Those works listed in Nancy Florida's work are freely available for access at the Mangkunegaraan Library in Solo. During the 1980's I made photo-copies of all keris related books and manuscripts in that library, and the ones in Hanacaraka I had translated to B.I., I had a few of the romanised Javanese ones translated also, even in roman letters older Javanese is not so easy to read.

[Pusaka]

Found this and thought it was quite interesting, note it starts with Empu ramayadi