A Batangas Brass Bladed Dagger

Ian · 1st December 2015, 11:16 PM

Hi Robert:

From the shape of the hilt I was thinking more of northern Luzon. Do you have a good provenance for Batangas?

Ian.

Robert · 2nd December 2015, 01:01 AM

Detlef, Thank you for tour thoughts on this piece. I am very happy that seeing as you were also watching it as well that the seller accepted my offer, lowered the price and let me snag it on a Buy It Now without someone else grabbing it up first. I think that the mismatched scabbard threw others off as well.

Rick, Thank you for posting the measurements of your dagger here for comparison. Mine might have more dots, but yours has dots and those neat plates on the sides.

I just noticed that yours and the one in the photos posted below both have the dots and plates on the hilt.

Now I feel cheated.

Ian, What makes me think that these pieces are from Batangas are the hilts themselves, some of the discussions we have had on them here on the forum as well as ones that I have had with Migueldiaz AKA Lorenz from Filhistory. Here are a couple of photos of a sword with a very similar hilt style. I have another that is marked in a similar fashion somewhere and have been trying to locate it to post as well, but no luck so far.

Best,
Robert

Ian · 4th December 2015, 10:23 PM

Robert:

Thank you for the additional pics which show Taal and Bats on the hilt of a most unusual looking sword.I interpret TAAL to mean Lake Taal and BATS to mean Batangas. Lake Taal is a popular tourist vista in Batangas, and a most picturesque spot to visit--young couples find it a romantic place and not too far from Manila for a day trip. There are many legends about this place.

Lake Taal is a freshwater lake in an old volcanic caldera. Within the lake is a second order volcano that also has a lake, and within that lake is another small, third order volcano with a third order lake. Since it references a somewhat "magical" spot, I wonder if the most recent, fanciful sword you posted may have been made more for display than for use.

Ian.

Robert · 5th December 2015, 10:01 PM

Hello Ian, The strange kris sword was sold on epray a year or two ago. As for its original use I could only guess. It does not look all that fanciful to me after looking at some of the other odd kris that have adorned these pages over the years. I do wonder though if the present guard is original to it or not as it looks a little out of place with the rest of the sword. I would love to someday be able to visit the Philippines and visit that area. Here are a couple of photos of Lake Taal gleaned form the internet.

Best,
Robert

mdp10003 · 6th December 2015, 04:18 PM

Hi! I don't think it is Lake Taal - it refers to the town of Taal, Batangas. It is a small town with the biggest Basilica in Asia, and was also home to several revolutionary families, including the Apacible and Agoncillo and Diokno families. So who knows, that dagger may have revolutionary roots!

Sajen · 6th December 2015, 04:46 PM

Here some stuff to read regarding Taal: http://www.philippine-islands.ph/en/...ilippines.html

Sajen · 6th December 2015, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

I wonder if the most recent, fanciful sword you posted may have been made more for display than for use.

Hello Ian,

sorry, but I think that this heavy kris sword was meant for real use and I would guess that it is from the late 19th century or early 20th century. When I remember correct was the seller of the same opinion. The nicks in the edges shows that it was used IMVHO. This sword, when it is the same one, wasn't from ebay but was sold from a well known site in the States. I still keep the original pictures, maybe they are more meaningful.
Just get the information that the sword was indeed listed at ebay before it was sold from the mentioned site.

Regards,
Detlef

Robert · 8th December 2015, 10:48 PM

Detlef, Thank you very much for posting the photos of the odd kris and I am in total agreement with you on the age of the kris sword.
The brass dagger has arrived and I have had a chance to clean the dirt and filth from the hilt, but have not yet had time to remove the varnish from the blade so the color of the brass is a little off in the below photos.

Total length 17-1/8 inches
Blade length 12-1.8 inches
Blade width 1-3/4 inches

Best,
Robert

Sajen · 9th December 2015, 10:20 PM

Hello Robert,

great addition to your collection of brass and copper blade Luzon daggers.

Fine that it is in such a good condition.
Maybe when you find the time can show them all together in one picture.

Best regards,
Detlef

Robert · 10th December 2015, 02:40 AM

Hello Detlef,
Thank you for your kind words on this as well as the other daggers in my collection. I will try to find time in the next few days (if the wife will just let me rest long enough from rearranging the furniture and putting up the Holiday decorations) to get a group photo of my small collection of Luzon copper and brass bladed daggers.

Best,
Robert

2nd December 2015, 01:01 AM	#2
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Detlef, Thank you for tour thoughts on this piece. I am very happy that seeing as you were also watching it as well that the seller accepted my offer, lowered the price and let me snag it on a Buy It Now without someone else grabbing it up first. I think that the mismatched scabbard threw others off as well. Rick, Thank you for posting the measurements of your dagger here for comparison. Mine might have more dots, but yours has dots and those neat plates on the sides. I just noticed that yours and the one in the photos posted below both have the dots and plates on the hilt. Now I feel cheated. Ian, What makes me think that these pieces are from Batangas are the hilts themselves, some of the discussions we have had on them here on the forum as well as ones that I have had with Migueldiaz AKA Lorenz from Filhistory. Here are a couple of photos of a sword with a very similar hilt style. I have another that is marked in a similar fashion somewhere and have been trying to locate it to post as well, but no luck so far. Best, Robert Attached Images

5th December 2015, 10:01 PM	#4
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Ian, The strange kris sword was sold on epray a year or two ago. As for its original use I could only guess. It does not look all that fanciful to me after looking at some of the other odd kris that have adorned these pages over the years. I do wonder though if the present guard is original to it or not as it looks a little out of place with the rest of the sword. I would love to someday be able to visit the Philippines and visit that area. Here are a couple of photos of Lake Taal gleaned form the internet. Best, Robert Attached Images

6th December 2015, 04:18 PM	#5
mdp10003 Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 28	Taal Hi! I don't think it is Lake Taal - it refers to the town of Taal, Batangas. It is a small town with the biggest Basilica in Asia, and was also home to several revolutionary families, including the Apacible and Agoncillo and Diokno families. So who knows, that dagger may have revolutionary roots!

8th December 2015, 10:48 PM	#8
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Detlef, Thank you very much for posting the photos of the odd kris and I am in total agreement with you on the age of the kris sword. The brass dagger has arrived and I have had a chance to clean the dirt and filth from the hilt, but have not yet had time to remove the varnish from the blade so the color of the brass is a little off in the below photos. Total length 17-1/8 inches Blade length 12-1.8 inches Blade width 1-3/4 inches Best, Robert Attached Images

1st December 2015, 11:16 PM	#1
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,361	Hi Robert: From the shape of the hilt I was thinking more of northern Luzon. Do you have a good provenance for Batangas? Ian.

4th December 2015, 10:23 PM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,361	Robert: Thank you for the additional pics which show Taal and Bats on the hilt of a most unusual looking sword.I interpret TAAL to mean Lake Taal and BATS to mean Batangas. Lake Taal is a popular tourist vista in Batangas, and a most picturesque spot to visit--young couples find it a romantic place and not too far from Manila for a day trip. There are many legends about this place. Lake Taal is a freshwater lake in an old volcanic caldera. Within the lake is a second order volcano that also has a lake, and within that lake is another small, third order volcano with a third order lake. Since it references a somewhat "magical" spot, I wonder if the most recent, fanciful sword you posted may have been made more for display than for use. Ian.

6th December 2015, 04:46 PM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,164	Here some stuff to read regarding Taal: http://www.philippine-islands.ph/en/...ilippines.html

9th December 2015, 10:20 PM	#9
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,164	Hello Robert, great addition to your collection of brass and copper blade Luzon daggers. Fine that it is in such a good condition. Maybe when you find the time can show them all together in one picture. Best regards, Detlef

10th December 2015, 02:40 AM	#10
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Detlef, Thank you for your kind words on this as well as the other daggers in my collection. I will try to find time in the next few days (if the wife will just let me rest long enough from rearranging the furniture and putting up the Holiday decorations) to get a group photo of my small collection of Luzon copper and brass bladed daggers. Best, Robert