How did Empus obtain steel?

David · 24th November 2015, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tatyana Dianova

The Pamor on this Balinese Keris looks like it was made of some kind of crucible steel, although a metallurgical analysis is needed to be sure...

This seems unlikely to me Tatyana. Pamor is generally not steel. The word literally means "mixture" and it is generally a mix of various iron ores with varying ferric and/or nickelous content.

A. G. Maisey · 24th November 2015, 04:39 AM

This is worth a read:-

http://www.oxis.org/theses/misol-2103.pdf

David · 24th November 2015, 05:24 AM

Wow, brilliant find Alan, thanks!

A. G. Maisey · 24th November 2015, 06:32 AM

Got lots of these papers David, both online stuff and hardcopy.

There's a good one done by an Aussie team, but I forget the details, it might be in hardcopy, not online, don't have time to look right now.

edit:- Land of Iron, Bulbeck & Caldwell

This is actually an archaeological investigation of settlement related to Luwu, but included in results is mention that iron smelting in Luwu might have begun as early as 600CE, and was certainly under way between 1480 and 1630, they hypothesise that most of the production was exported to Jawa and talk about use in keris & etc. In any case this work supports the fact that iron was imported into Jawa.

For anybody with an interest in this sort of thing, a good place to start is probably "The Bronze-Iron Age of Indonesia". van Heekeren

Ian · 26th November 2015, 02:09 PM

The folly of the Dutch in laying good raw materials on the ground that could be used by the locals was repeated elsewhere by the British. Railway tracks were used in India and Burma for making steel tools and weapons, and the Naga were known to appropriate plantation tools to create their dao. The Burmese also used anchor chains as a source of high quality iron.

Resourceful folks.

Ian.

rasdan · 27th November 2015, 10:56 AM

Not about keris, but while we are in this topic, I think I'll include this discovery as well.

Iron smelting site in Peninsular Malaysia dating 3 - 5th CE. Artifacts that had been found include 1.7 tonne of iron slag, 800+kg of iron tuyere and 150kg iron ore.

Research paper entitled "THE ANCIENT IRON SMELTING IN SG. BATU, BUJANG VALLEY, KEDAH"

http://www.cuhk.edu.hk/ant/Postgradu...kmaMOKHTAR.pdf

The following is a documentary about Sungai Batu. It is in Malay, but it have a reasonable English subtitle.

Very interesting as this civilization is actually older than Angkor Wat where some sites may go back as old as 500BC. 2500 years old.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oAbe-mKxSE

Pusaka · 14th December 2015, 11:03 PM

Traditionally there are said to be 16 types of besi available to empu and they would make a keris by blending three or more of these besi, thats what I was told anyway. Some of those besi came from Cambodia (Kamboja besi).

1 Karang kijang = like the sound of buzzing bees
2 Puraseni = Gurrr
3 Mangkang Laki Laki = Drung
4 Mangkang Perempuan = Like rubbing salt together
5 Walulin = Gung
6 Ktub = Kun
7 Kamboja = Hub
8 Ambal = Da
9 Windudi = Kha
10 Tumpang = Aba
11 Werani = Um
12 Welangi = Om
13 Tarte = Jan
14 Melelo = Za
15 Kenur = Mak
16 Palitung = Va

24th November 2015, 06:32 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Got lots of these papers David, both online stuff and hardcopy. There's a good one done by an Aussie team, but I forget the details, it might be in hardcopy, not online, don't have time to look right now. edit:- Land of Iron, Bulbeck & Caldwell This is actually an archaeological investigation of settlement related to Luwu, but included in results is mention that iron smelting in Luwu might have begun as early as 600CE, and was certainly under way between 1480 and 1630, they hypothesise that most of the production was exported to Jawa and talk about use in keris & etc. In any case this work supports the fact that iron was imported into Jawa. For anybody with an interest in this sort of thing, a good place to start is probably "The Bronze-Iron Age of Indonesia". van Heekeren Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 24th November 2015 at 11:28 AM.

27th November 2015, 10:56 AM	#6
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 368	Not about keris, but while we are in this topic, I think I'll include this discovery as well. Iron smelting site in Peninsular Malaysia dating 3 - 5th CE. Artifacts that had been found include 1.7 tonne of iron slag, 800+kg of iron tuyere and 150kg iron ore. Research paper entitled "THE ANCIENT IRON SMELTING IN SG. BATU, BUJANG VALLEY, KEDAH" http://www.cuhk.edu.hk/ant/Postgradu...kmaMOKHTAR.pdf The following is a documentary about Sungai Batu. It is in Malay, but it have a reasonable English subtitle. Very interesting as this civilization is actually older than Angkor Wat where some sites may go back as old as 500BC. 2500 years old. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oAbe-mKxSE Last edited by rasdan; 27th November 2015 at 11:42 AM.

24th November 2015, 04:39 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	This is worth a read:- http://www.oxis.org/theses/misol-2103.pdf

24th November 2015, 05:24 AM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Wow, brilliant find Alan, thanks!

26th November 2015, 02:09 PM	#5
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,361	The folly of the Dutch in laying good raw materials on the ground that could be used by the locals was repeated elsewhere by the British. Railway tracks were used in India and Burma for making steel tools and weapons, and the Naga were known to appropriate plantation tools to create their dao. The Burmese also used anchor chains as a source of high quality iron. Resourceful folks. Ian.

14th December 2015, 11:03 PM	#7
Pusaka Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 341	Traditionally there are said to be 16 types of besi available to empu and they would make a keris by blending three or more of these besi, thats what I was told anyway. Some of those besi came from Cambodia (Kamboja besi). 1 Karang kijang = like the sound of buzzing bees 2 Puraseni = Gurrr 3 Mangkang Laki Laki = Drung 4 Mangkang Perempuan = Like rubbing salt together 5 Walulin = Gung 6 Ktub = Kun 7 Kamboja = Hub 8 Ambal = Da 9 Windudi = Kha 10 Tumpang = Aba 11 Werani = Um 12 Welangi = Om 13 Tarte = Jan 14 Melelo = Za 15 Kenur = Mak 16 Palitung = Va