Another axe to grind

harrywagner · 21st November 2015, 05:18 PM

I've spent some time looking at past posts of Tabars and Battle Axes. It's not a bad way to spend a few hours. There are some interesting ones that have been posted here. However, I could not find one that is a close match for this one. Does anyone recognize it? The seller thought it was Indian or Persian and probably 19th. Thanks in advance for any help.

Harry

kronckew · 21st November 2015, 06:18 PM

most with those two copper/brass inlays near the eye socket are afghani i suspect.

it looks like the join between the eye socket and the blade tang is a fillet arc weld, not a good sign. could be a repair. wouldn't trust it not to break there in use. blade looks nice & thick tho, not flat sheet like in a parade axe.

i suspect also it's fairly new & for 'those who travel'.

a 'top' view thru the eye would be informative too. dimensions?

estcrh · 21st November 2015, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

most with those two copper/brass inlays near the eye socket are afghani i suspect.

it looks like the join between the eye socket and the blade tang is a fillet arc weld, not a good sign. could be a repair. wouldn't trust it not to break there in use. blade looks nice & thick tho, not flat sheet like in a parade axe.

i suspect also it's fairly new & for 'those who travel'.

a 'top' view thru the eye would be informative too. dimensions?

While I have not seen this exact type it is very similar in shape and socket to other axe said to be from Afganistan.

Battara · 22nd November 2015, 01:53 AM

I agree this is Afgani....

Oliver Pinchot · 22nd November 2015, 01:58 AM

It is Afghan, contemporary work.

harrywagner · 22nd November 2015, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

most with those two copper/brass inlays near the eye socket are afghani i suspect.

it looks like the join between the eye socket and the blade tang is a fillet arc weld, not a good sign. could be a repair. wouldn't trust it not to break there in use. blade looks nice & thick tho, not flat sheet like in a parade axe.

i suspect also it's fairly new & for 'those who travel'.

a 'top' view thru the eye would be informative too. dimensions?

Thanks Kronckew. Here are a few more photos. I have not been able to determine if that spot where the blade is joined to the socket is a weld or not. Please let me know what you think.

Oliver - regarding it's age - this piece does not look recently made to me. If it is, then I would call it a fake since (IMO) it would have had to have been deliberately distressed to look like it does. I am OK with that. It will not be my first fake, but before I catalog it as such I would like to see something to backup this assertion. Maybe that should be a forum rule? Thanks.

kronckew · 22nd November 2015, 05:21 PM

the socket eye looks like it was made from a flat bar wrapped around a rod to form the ring, the line of holes just below the tang junction seem to indicate that, and their appears to be a line you can see where the seam may have been, the tang then appears to be welded to the ring, covering half the join line. the afghans are adept at doing this, it may be an antique hammer welded piece. after all they make lee-enfields, martini-henrys and even ak47s from scrap steel.

an accomplished smith may be able to make it from a a single piece of steel with an eye punch and lots of hammering, but i'm assuming the worst.

a more secure method frequently used would be to form a ring with an extension of the tang wrapped around a mandrel then hammer welded to itself. you wind up with a wedge shaped blade where the end is hammered down more and more as they cover the tang. some fancy ones get an inserted edge of harder steel, but normally the eye/tang area is softer steel than the edge or a differentially hardened edge.

here's my munitions grade version of yours showing the socket which is wrapped around a mandrel then hammer welded, quick and dirty no frills. well, maybe a couple of X's & I's

(note to self - finish re hafting it. i need to get off my butt.

)

harrywagner · 22nd November 2015, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

the socket eye looks like it was made from a flat bar wrapped around a rod to form the ring, the line of holes just below the tang junction seem to indicate that, and their appears to be a line you can see where the seam may have been, the tang then appears to be welded to the ring, covering half the join line. the afghans are adept at doing this, it may be an antique hammer welded piece. after all they make lee-enfields, martini-henrys and even ak47s from scrap steel.

an accomplished smith may be able to make it from a a single piece of steel with an eye punch and lots of hammering, but i'm assuming the worst.

Many thanks. I think that is exactly how this one was made. I'm going to put this one down as Afghan and contemporary, and then add it to my wall of shame. Thanks again to you and others for the comments. I am glad I asked. I was way off with this one.

fernando · 22nd November 2015, 07:31 PM

Strange similarity in shape:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=CORK

kronckew · 22nd November 2015, 08:45 PM

i blame the vikings, getting tired of mead they had to look further afield for their tipple. they sailed to the Uk which by then had run out of wine, the romans having left to guard their vineyards in italy, so they were forced to drink warm ale.

some went south from the fjords and entered germany, where the beer was so good they stayed and melted into the population.

some sailed to france, found they had wine and stayed, taking over normandy.

some normans eventually sailed all the way south and thru the straights of gibraltar and conquered large sections of italy.

meanwhile the smart ones, who had stopped on the west coast of the iberian penninsula discovered the fantastic wines of the area, especially the fjord-like hills of the douro valley. they intermarried with the handsome and beautiful locals, and commenced to produce the wonder we call 'port' after the city where the ships came in, oddly called 'the port'. anyway. their old system of wooden casks and plugs sealed with an old rag would no longer do as the wine had to be aged for the best flavours.

one day in the oak forest, a bored ex-viking decided to carve his name into the oak, and cut a long line with his axe. the bark peeled off in a sheet. he was intrigued by the light spongy material and in a flash of inspiration he carved a plug for his canteen & it worked perfectly. and thus the cork industry was born.

Carl Ugalsson, the viking, became famous for his special brew and became rich enough to attract the attention of the local warlord. who killed him and took over his business. but in carl's honour he decreed that thereafter the axes used to peel cork would be viking shaped, and so it is until today, when the portugese are selling all their axes on ebay as viking war axes and making yet another fortune as the corks are replaced temporarily with plastic. (this too shall pass when we run out of oil) meanwhile the family of the warlord fernando o moderador I continues to control vast swathes of the country named after his wine, port-ugal.

fernando · 22nd November 2015, 10:47 PM

Wayne, this must be your greatest post ever published in this forum

.
What a great piece of history

kronckew · 22nd November 2015, 10:55 PM

the truth shal set us free.

21st November 2015, 05:18 PM	#1
harrywagner Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 373	Another axe to grind I've spent some time looking at past posts of Tabars and Battle Axes. It's not a bad way to spend a few hours. There are some interesting ones that have been posted here. However, I could not find one that is a close match for this one. Does anyone recognize it? The seller thought it was Indian or Persian and probably 19th. Thanks in advance for any help. Harry Attached Images

22nd November 2015, 05:21 PM	#7
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	the socket eye looks like it was made from a flat bar wrapped around a rod to form the ring, the line of holes just below the tang junction seem to indicate that, and their appears to be a line you can see where the seam may have been, the tang then appears to be welded to the ring, covering half the join line. the afghans are adept at doing this, it may be an antique hammer welded piece. after all they make lee-enfields, martini-henrys and even ak47s from scrap steel. an accomplished smith may be able to make it from a a single piece of steel with an eye punch and lots of hammering, but i'm assuming the worst. a more secure method frequently used would be to form a ring with an extension of the tang wrapped around a mandrel then hammer welded to itself. you wind up with a wedge shaped blade where the end is hammered down more and more as they cover the tang. some fancy ones get an inserted edge of harder steel, but normally the eye/tang area is softer steel than the edge or a differentially hardened edge. here's my munitions grade version of yours showing the socket which is wrapped around a mandrel then hammer welded, quick and dirty no frills. well, maybe a couple of X's & I's (note to self - finish re hafting it. i need to get off my butt. ) Attached Images

21st November 2015, 06:18 PM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	most with those two copper/brass inlays near the eye socket are afghani i suspect. it looks like the join between the eye socket and the blade tang is a fillet arc weld, not a good sign. could be a repair. wouldn't trust it not to break there in use. blade looks nice & thick tho, not flat sheet like in a parade axe. i suspect also it's fairly new & for 'those who travel'. a 'top' view thru the eye would be informative too. dimensions?

22nd November 2015, 01:53 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,225	I agree this is Afgani....

22nd November 2015, 01:58 AM	#5
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 457	It is Afghan, contemporary work.

22nd November 2015, 07:31 PM	#9
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Strange similarity in shape: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=CORK

22nd November 2015, 08:45 PM	#10
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	i blame the vikings, getting tired of mead they had to look further afield for their tipple. they sailed to the Uk which by then had run out of wine, the romans having left to guard their vineyards in italy, so they were forced to drink warm ale. some went south from the fjords and entered germany, where the beer was so good they stayed and melted into the population. some sailed to france, found they had wine and stayed, taking over normandy. some normans eventually sailed all the way south and thru the straights of gibraltar and conquered large sections of italy. meanwhile the smart ones, who had stopped on the west coast of the iberian penninsula discovered the fantastic wines of the area, especially the fjord-like hills of the douro valley. they intermarried with the handsome and beautiful locals, and commenced to produce the wonder we call 'port' after the city where the ships came in, oddly called 'the port'. anyway. their old system of wooden casks and plugs sealed with an old rag would no longer do as the wine had to be aged for the best flavours. one day in the oak forest, a bored ex-viking decided to carve his name into the oak, and cut a long line with his axe. the bark peeled off in a sheet. he was intrigued by the light spongy material and in a flash of inspiration he carved a plug for his canteen & it worked perfectly. and thus the cork industry was born. Carl Ugalsson, the viking, became famous for his special brew and became rich enough to attract the attention of the local warlord. who killed him and took over his business. but in carl's honour he decreed that thereafter the axes used to peel cork would be viking shaped, and so it is until today, when the portugese are selling all their axes on ebay as viking war axes and making yet another fortune as the corks are replaced temporarily with plastic. (this too shall pass when we run out of oil) meanwhile the family of the warlord fernando o moderador I continues to control vast swathes of the country named after his wine, port-ugal.

22nd November 2015, 10:47 PM	#11
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Wayne, this must be your greatest post ever published in this forum . What a great piece of history

22nd November 2015, 10:55 PM	#12
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	the truth shal set us free.