Indian bagh nakh (tiger claws)

[ariel]

I am jumping in when all the relevant things were already said. Thus, just my personal opinion.
This cannot be a Bagh Nakh, because it is not hidden.


Some strange mix of a parrying shield, bazu band and multi blade katar.
India is full of bizarre combination weapons. Perhaps, this one was not very handy and the pattern withered away; hence the rarity.

Might have been devilishly hard to invent a name for such a mutt. Maltipoo or goldendoodle must have been child plays in comparison:-)

It has its charm, however.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by ariel

I am jumping in when all the relevant things were already said. Thus, just my personal opinion. This cannot be a Bagh Nakh, because it is not hidden.

Ariel, there is no rule that bagh nakh have to be hidden, while some are small enough to wrap a hand around others are not, I do not believe that the ability to hide one in your hand determines whether a weapon is a bagh nakh/bagh nakh varient.

Manner of using the wagnuk, from: "Life in Bombay, and the neighbouring out-stations", Richard Bentley, 1852.

[Pukka Bundook]

Dear Estcrh,

I see no reason for you insisting that the weapon in the opening post of this thread is a bagh nakh, as it bears no resemblance to the small hidden devices by that name.
Neither can such a weapon be used as is a bagh nakh. Totally different.

Best wishes,
Richard.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Dear Estcrh,

I see no reason for you insisting that the weapon in the opening post of this thread is a bagh nakh, as it bears no resemblance to the small hidden devices by that name.
Neither can such a weapon be used as is a bagh nakh. Totally different.

Best wishes,
Richard.

Richard, I could ask why you insist that the bagh nakh is a small hidden weapon, many are not that small and can not be hidden at all.

I am not insisting that the weapon you are referring to is a bagh nakh, to me it looks like an Indian weapons maker invented a souped up bagh nakh, replacing the claws with blades, the rings with a bar and adding a shield, thats how I see it, one mans evolved, improved version of the bagh nakh.

The one Artzi sold was 14 inches long, which means that there would 7 inches on each side of the handle, this is not long enough to be an effective parrying weapon but some people insist that it is a parrying weapon, that is how they see it.

That is the purpose of forum discussions, people post their theories, references, research etc, which helps put a lot of information on a particular subject in one place, sometimes nothing is solved other times the results are quite good.

[Pukka Bundook]

Thank you for your reply Eric.

To me this weapon appears made for parrying, but with a sting attached!
Bucklers can be Very small, some the size of a tea -plate, and yet are (Were) used for parrying.
Whatever is was called, it cannot have been common.
I Theorize (!) that it could have been made to keep a Prince or wealthy man happy. A man who owned all other weaponry already!

Must state again though, I see No connection to the tiger claw weapon, other than the fact it has more than one cutting edge............Actually!...(and here I wander off into fantasy)....
I suppose under this category also fits my old sickle mower!

Best wishes,
Richard.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Bucklers can be Very small, some the size of a tea -plate, and yet are (Were) used for parrying.

It would be a brave man who would go up against an Indian warrior with a "tea plate" sized piece of metal.

[Timo Nieminen]

Originally Posted by estcrh

It would be a brave man who would go up against an Indian warrior with a "tea plate" sized piece of metal.

Given the number of Indian shields in the 8" to 12" diameter range, there were plenty of men willing to go against Indian warriors with quite small shields. It's not a bad size for duels or other 1-to-1 fights. Not so good on the battlefield, since it doesn't offer as much protection against arrows. Against swords, a small shield is light and fast, doesn't get in the way of your own weapon, is less likely to get trapped/grabbed by the opponent, is less vulnerable to being hooked/pressed by the opponent's weapon. Also easier to carry around all day.

The popularity of little shields across multiple continents suggest that they work well enough.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by ariel

I am jumping in when all the relevant things were already said. Thus, just my personal opinion.
This cannot be a Bagh Nakh, because it is not hidden.


Some strange mix of a parrying shield, bazu band and multi blade katar.
India is full of bizarre combination weapons. Perhaps, this one was not very handy and the pattern withered away; hence the rarity.

Might have been devilishly hard to invent a name for such a mutt. Maltipoo or goldendoodle must have been child plays in comparison:-)

It has its charm, however.

But the ergonomics of this thing are all wrong for most any use that I can imagine.
I would love to see an illustration of exactly how this is deployed as a weapon.

[ariel]

Originally Posted by Rick

But the ergonomics of this thing are all wrong for most any use that I can imagine.
I would love to see an illustration of exactly how this is deployed as a weapon.

We are in agreement. That's exactly what I said about it: not very handy, hence very rare.

Even in India known for her abundance of bizarre forms, weapons that were mechanically unsound did not survive for long.
Bank with an over-curved blade is an example. Indians had a lot of imagination, but they were not dummies and a common sense always prevailed.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by ariel

We are in agreement. That's exactly what I said about it: not very handy, hence very rare.

Even in India known for her abundance of bizarre forms, weapons that were mechanically unsound did not survive for long.

Bank with an over-curved blade is an example. Indians had a lot of imagination, but they were not dummies and a common sense always prevailed.

When you look at the bank sickle, the blade is very similar in shape with the claw of the bagh nakh. I have seen several bank being described as Maratha in origin. Considering how important the bagh nakh is in the history of the Maratha I wonder if there is some sort of symbolism there.

How common was the bank, who used it and how long was it around for?

Indian (central, Maharashtra) bank dagger/sickle, 19th century, steel, bronze, gold, jade, pearls, wood, velvet, overall length, 21.0 cm. The Feldman Collection.

[estcrh]

Here is an interesting example, it is from the Pitt Rivers Museum. Some effort went into making this bagh nakh look like jewelry instead of a weapon by covering the rings with copper/brass and adding gems to the top of each ring. The Museum also included an essay with some good information.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Rick

But the ergonomics of this thing are all wrong for most any use that I can imagine.
I would love to see an illustration of exactly how this is deployed as a weapon.

Seems pretty easy to visualize, you grasp the handle and punch or slash with it.

[Pukka Bundook]

But, there is nothing to stop it twisting in one's hand Eric. It's all wrong.

best regards,
Richard.

[Emanuel]

In my eyes this thing works just like a buckler you parry with it and stab,cut opportunistically.

[estcrh]

The last refuge of claw fighting in Indian takes place in Mysore, the Vajramushti Kalaga is a centuries old traditional wrestling contest held in the courtyard of Mysore Palace during Dasara, each contest ends with the draw of first blood from one of the combatants participating in the duel. Vajra-musti (thunder fist/diamond fist) refers to a spiked, knuckleduster like weapon worn on the right hand.