Turkish Shamshir

Kubur · 22nd October 2015, 02:26 PM

It is amazing that you talk to each others and you don't give a shit to what i wrote previously. If you take in consideration the others you will learn something. I can understand that people are leaving this forum with such a low level. And I talk about you three guys!

A.alnakkas · 22nd October 2015, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

It is amazing that you talk to each others and you don't give a shit to what i wrote previously. If you take in consideration the others you will learn something. I can understand that people are leaving this forum with such a low level. And I talk about you three guys!

Hey Kubur, Eric, and everyone else,

Apologies to anyone I may have offended. Kubur, we are basically on the same line, thus I did not see a necessity to respond to you. Would it count if I nodded as I read your comment?

Eric; the issue is that local terms are being confused with 'collector' terms. There should be a post dedicated to what collectors should call items and what the locals and users of those items (historically or contemporary) called said items.

estcrh · 22nd October 2015, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Eric; the issue is that local terms are being confused with 'collector' terms. There should be a post dedicated to what collectors should call items and what the locals and users of those items (historically or contemporary) called said items.

I agree completely, this is what I have been saying in my posts. I personally am not making anything up, I am just showing references that may have influenced past uses of the word, whether they are accurate or not. Local armor and weapons terms and use have always been subject to the whims of visitors, not just in Arab countries.

Kubur · 22nd October 2015, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Hey Kubur, Eric, and everyone else,

Apologies to anyone I may have offended. Kubur, we are basically on the same line, thus I did not see a necessity to respond to you. Would it count if I nodded as I read your comment?

Eric; the issue is that local terms are being confused with 'collector' terms. There should be a post dedicated to what collectors should call items and what the locals and users of those items (historically or contemporary) called said items.

Ralass Ustaz, the case is closed!

ALEX · 22nd October 2015, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

It is amazing that you talk to each others and you don't give a shit to what i wrote previously. If you take in consideration the others you will learn something. I can understand that people are leaving this forum with such a low level. And I talk about you three guys!

I don't agree with you about the term "to learn"... these are your words from previous post, Kubur

But seriously, the problem here is that people arguing about terminology and picking minor differences in descriptions and words based on what they saw or read somewhere. It is meaningless to argue what sword to call a sword, and to not know the difference between them

I think you know the difference, but getting drugged into semantic.

estcrh · 22nd October 2015, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

It is amazing that you talk to each others and you don't give a shit to what i wrote previously. If you take in consideration the others you will learn something. I can understand that people are leaving this forum with such a low level. And I talk about you three guys!

Kuber, do you have any references to back up your views?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Let me enter in the "dance", I vote for Alex! But I would like to add something:
Saif is the Arabic word for sword, no more. It can be - and not should be - apply to Arabic swords.

And again the origin of the blade doesn't define a sword.
An Arabian sword with a Persian blade is an Arabian sword, called sometimes saif sometimes Arabian shamshir by collectors...
Kubur

Kubur · 22nd October 2015, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh

Kuber, do you have any references to back up your views?

By references, do you mean:

- catalogues like Pinchot or Hales?

- or scientific references like Elgood?

Yes I have "The Arms and Armour of Arabia in the 18Th-19th and 20th Centuries".

estcrh · 22nd October 2015, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

By references, do you mean:

- catalogues like Pinchot or Hales?

- or scientific references like Elgood?

Yes I have "The Arms and Armour of Arabia in the 18Th-19th and 20th Centuries".

Any written/printed reference (right or wrong) that helps explain why somone may have certain views on the topic of saif.

Since you have Elgoods book can you verify the quote I posted, does he have anything else to say on the subject ?

Kubur · 22nd October 2015, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh

Any written/printed reference (right or wrong) that helps explain why somone may have certain views on the topic of saif.

Since you have Elgoods book can you verify the quote I posted, does he have anything else to say on the subject ?

I will, do you have the page number? Or I have to look at the whole chapter?
I suggest to read also Alexander and Zaki.

estcrh · 22nd October 2015, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

I will, do you have the page number? Or I have to look at the whole chapter?
I suggest to read also Alexander and Zaki.

I am told that particular quote on the saif may be around page 10.

Miguel · 22nd October 2015, 09:24 PM

WOW, When I posted this thread I never dreamed it would develop as it has. I am only a simple collector who wished confirmation of the sword which was answered in the first couple of replies, amazing how the subject changes but very interesting if not somewhat confusing for someone with only a little knowledge like me. This is what I like about this forum I learn something every time I log on.
I googled all the sword type names i.e. Kilij, Saif and Shamshir etc. to seek clarification but I can tell you that every thing contained in the thread could be found. I think that. for myself, I am better sticking to the name the sword conjures up in my mind otherwise it becomes to confusing.
Thank you everyone for your comments and time.
Regards
Miguel
ps Can anyone translate the blade stamp.

estcrh · 25th October 2015, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

I will, do you have the page number? Or I have to look at the whole chapter?
I suggest to read also Alexander and Zaki.

Kuber, any luck finding that quote in Elgoods book? It should be on or near page 10 from what I was told.

Kubur · 25th October 2015, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh

Kuber, any luck finding that quote in Elgoods book? It should be on or near page 10 from what I was told.

Hi,
yes the chapter on the swords starts page 10.
But there are a lot of things. What are you looking for exactly??
Best,

22nd October 2015, 02:26 PM	#1
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	It is amazing that you talk to each others and you don't give a shit to what i wrote previously. If you take in consideration the others you will learn something. I can understand that people are leaving this forum with such a low level. And I talk about you three guys!

22nd October 2015, 09:24 PM	#11
Miguel Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 584	WOW, When I posted this thread I never dreamed it would develop as it has. I am only a simple collector who wished confirmation of the sword which was answered in the first couple of replies, amazing how the subject changes but very interesting if not somewhat confusing for someone with only a little knowledge like me. This is what I like about this forum I learn something every time I log on. I googled all the sword type names i.e. Kilij, Saif and Shamshir etc. to seek clarification but I can tell you that every thing contained in the thread could be found. I think that. for myself, I am better sticking to the name the sword conjures up in my mind otherwise it becomes to confusing. Thank you everyone for your comments and time. Regards Miguel ps Can anyone translate the blade stamp.