Tesche Small Sword or Rapier

Cathey · 11th October 2015, 04:18 AM

Hi Guys

This sword belonged to a late friend of mine for many years and I picked it up at auction last weekend. It is not a particularly attractive thing but feels great in the hand. The guard is unusual and I would like your thoughts on wether this is a Rapier or a Small sword and which Tesche it could be. The instruction on the blade is XX IcHAN X TESCHE X WIERSIERGH XX and on the other side XX IN X ALAVAMASIA X SOLINGEN XX

Shell Guard Rapier or Small sword
Nationality: German
Date: Circa 1650?
Maker/Retailer: Johan Tesche?
Overall Length: 35” 89 cm Long,
Blade length: 29 ¾” 75.6 cm
Blade widest point: ¾” 2cm
Hilt widest point: 3 ¼” 8.4 cm
Inside grip length: 3 3/8” 8.7 cm

Description
Plain round pommel, wooden grip (wire missing) with flat quillon finials, featuring grooved lines by way of decoration. The iron shell guard has a rough pattern decoration. The single fullered blade is engraved on one side XX IN X ALAVAMASIA X SOLINGEN XX and XX IN X ALAVAMASIA X SOLINGEN XX on the other.

ulfberth · 11th October 2015, 12:17 PM

Hi Cathey,

this is a small sword, however I believe it is a composite sword.
The pommel and the and the shell guard do not belong together and if you compare the engraving of the shell guard with the engraving of the blade it is crude vs very fine and the pommel has no engraving altogether.
The outer parts of quillons are also a later restoration, so small sword yes, but composite with parts from various pieces but with a nice blade.

The blade is most probably from Johannes Tesche from Solingen, Germany 3rd quarter of 17th century.
Han being short for Johannes and Ic Han meaning I Johannes, and wiersierg standing for Weyersberg Solingen,
IN X ALAVAMASIA for In Alamania

Kind regards

Ulfberth

Cathey · 17th October 2015, 05:24 AM

Hi Ulfberth

I agree I think it is composite, but then most swords of this period often are. I keep trying to imaging what the hilt would look like if it still had its wire binding.

Thank you for your clarification on the blades maker, the odd spelling had thrown me out at first.

The pommel appears very worn, when you look at it closely you can see the remnants of a wide middle band. The hilt is certainly an odd configuration; however the component parts appear to have been together for a very long time. I am at a complete loss as to why someone would marry such a nice blade with such a crude hilt.

Cheers Cathey and Rex

kronckew · 17th October 2015, 11:44 AM

would make a nice pillow sword. good use for a broken blade...

ulfberth · 17th October 2015, 12:29 PM

Hi Cathey,

Given the length of the blade you can be sure this is a blade of a small sword, its a blade not made for military use but for a noble men.
It is at its original length and not a shortened rapier blade, the sleek and slender point is an harmony with the whole blade.
The making of such a sleek and slender blade , extremely light, yet flexible but hard requires unique craftsmanship it is a work of art, these qualities can not be found in the hilt which looks more like a tool, which requires a different kind of craftsmanship.
Here are some examples of hilts that would go with your blade, since they are of comparable quality this is the style you should be thinking of.
The reason that someone at some point in time has brought these old parts together migth simply be that they were the parts that were available.

Kind regards

Ulfberth

David R · 17th October 2015, 02:20 PM

Perhaps it went through the hands of one of these men at some point. It is easy to forget that pre 20th century the whole World ran on what we would now describe as Third World economics. Nothing thrown away that could be used, remade, recycled or moved on for a modest profit. The original hilt could have been silver, and so knocked off and sold as bullion.

M ELEY · 17th October 2015, 07:13 PM

I agree with Ulfberth as far as a gentleman's sword. I would venture the possibility that it might be Spanish colonial in origin. If so, it would still be a "composite", but one of the contemporary period made for the constraints of a provincial locale that made due with the parts they had available to them. German sword smiths were continuously selling their wares to the Spanish and English craftsman all the time. I used to have a Spanish broadsword with the classic marking "Do not draw me without reason..." motto (in Spanish) by a well-known German maker (their marking and Solingen on blade. I likewise found an old copy of their workmanship being shipped to S. America). Likewise, the hilt/guard strikes me as Spanish colonial in its simplicity, functionality, and open style. The crude finials, with their simple line and cross design, screams Span-colonial to me. In Brincherhoff's volume, we see these patterns on some of the swords pictured. Likewise, Brazilian espada ancha (discussed on this forum in the past) has the same type of line/star patterning and 'C' shapes to their guards (and I do mean the exact same C shape!). I would guess that it might be later (mid-18th) despite its earlier pattern given that Span colonial pieces frequently were behind the times when it came to form (case in point, bilbos and cuphilts still being used in the Americas as late as the first quarter of the 19th c.)

Check out the thread from this forum "On the origin of the so-called Berber sabers" and take a look at Dmitri's shell guard, complete with 'C's. I've seen this patterning on these types of Span colonial pieces frequently.

Mark

Jim McDougall · 18th October 2015, 06:26 AM

Ulfberth brings up very good points on the combining of a quality blade and the cruder components seen here.

I think that Mark has very valid points concerning these crudely fashioned components, and the idea that this might fall into the incredibly wide spectrum of these kinds of weapons in Spain's colonies.

As noted, the crude work on the bilobate guard seems fashioned after smallsword shapes, but clearly is not of such quality. The interesting motif of alternating semi arc punches is indeed seen in variation on other known Spanish colonial weapons.
The quillon block and stubby paddle like quillons seem as if from those on a hirshfanger , and of course incongruent with the bilobate shell guard.
I have seen Mexican multi bar hilts with disc type base, with redundant cross guards underneath in this same manner.

As I look at the curious chop mark style motif on the quillons, they remind me of the stamped marks from lead ballast bars used in the early ships of sail, and often on the bars of bullion. Again, these kinds of marking seem to occur in rudimentary fashion on the blacksmith quality fabrications of these colonial outposts.

It does seem unlikely that a quality Solingen blade from this maker would have filtered into the trade networks entering the Spanish Main and its ports of call. It is well known that Solingen was producing many blades for Spain and its colonies, with many using spurious Toledo stamps and makers names in the latter 17th century , well through the 18th.

The espada ancha of the Spanish colonial frontiers was fashioned after the hangers of 17th century Europe and England.As the smallsword of the 18th century evolved, it was of course likely the inspiration in similar manner for many colonial artisans fashioning court type swords for the status conscious officials and aristocrats of these remote places.

Purely speculation of course, but of reasonable plausibility considering these elements.

ulfberth · 18th October 2015, 07:17 PM

Hi Mark and jim,

I agree as you pointed out, the guard plate is indeed of Spanish colonial style, however the smith who forged the guard plate with the C marks would at the same time carved these C marks on the pommel.
Like Jim said it is unlikely that a blade of this quality was originally ordered for this guard.
When did these three different components find each other ?
Were they put together from used parts to make a weapon for the colonies ?
This could very well be and is likely the case, however I find it unlikely that the person who assembled these parts is also the maker of them , because if he was than the pommel and the guard plate would have the same C marks.
Still, this small sword can be of historical value as a re using of old parts and as David well pointed out was perhaps purely done for economical reasons.

Kind regards

Ulfberth

11th October 2015, 04:18 AM	#1
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 282	Tesche Small Sword or Rapier Hi Guys This sword belonged to a late friend of mine for many years and I picked it up at auction last weekend. It is not a particularly attractive thing but feels great in the hand. The guard is unusual and I would like your thoughts on wether this is a Rapier or a Small sword and which Tesche it could be. The instruction on the blade is XX IcHAN X TESCHE X WIERSIERGH XX and on the other side XX IN X ALAVAMASIA X SOLINGEN XX Shell Guard Rapier or Small sword Nationality: German Date: Circa 1650? Maker/Retailer: Johan Tesche? Overall Length: 35” 89 cm Long, Blade length: 29 ¾” 75.6 cm Blade widest point: ¾” 2cm Hilt widest point: 3 ¼” 8.4 cm Inside grip length: 3 3/8” 8.7 cm Description Plain round pommel, wooden grip (wire missing) with flat quillon finials, featuring grooved lines by way of decoration. The iron shell guard has a rough pattern decoration. The single fullered blade is engraved on one side XX IN X ALAVAMASIA X SOLINGEN XX and XX IN X ALAVAMASIA X SOLINGEN XX on the other. Attached Images

11th October 2015, 12:17 PM	#2
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 400	Hi Cathey, this is a small sword, however I believe it is a composite sword. The pommel and the and the shell guard do not belong together and if you compare the engraving of the shell guard with the engraving of the blade it is crude vs very fine and the pommel has no engraving altogether. The outer parts of quillons are also a later restoration, so small sword yes, but composite with parts from various pieces but with a nice blade. The blade is most probably from Johannes Tesche from Solingen, Germany 3rd quarter of 17th century. Han being short for Johannes and Ic Han meaning I Johannes, and wiersierg standing for Weyersberg Solingen, IN X ALAVAMASIA for In Alamania Kind regards Ulfberth Last edited by ulfberth; 11th October 2015 at 12:33 PM.

17th October 2015, 05:24 AM	#3
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 282	German Small Sword Hi Ulfberth I agree I think it is composite, but then most swords of this period often are. I keep trying to imaging what the hilt would look like if it still had its wire binding. Thank you for your clarification on the blades maker, the odd spelling had thrown me out at first. The pommel appears very worn, when you look at it closely you can see the remnants of a wide middle band. The hilt is certainly an odd configuration; however the component parts appear to have been together for a very long time. I am at a complete loss as to why someone would marry such a nice blade with such a crude hilt. Cheers Cathey and Rex

17th October 2015, 12:29 PM	#5
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 400	Hi Cathey, Given the length of the blade you can be sure this is a blade of a small sword, its a blade not made for military use but for a noble men. It is at its original length and not a shortened rapier blade, the sleek and slender point is an harmony with the whole blade. The making of such a sleek and slender blade , extremely light, yet flexible but hard requires unique craftsmanship it is a work of art, these qualities can not be found in the hilt which looks more like a tool, which requires a different kind of craftsmanship. Here are some examples of hilts that would go with your blade, since they are of comparable quality this is the style you should be thinking of. The reason that someone at some point in time has brought these old parts together migth simply be that they were the parts that were available. Kind regards Ulfberth Attached Images

17th October 2015, 02:20 PM	#6
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,079	Perhaps it went through the hands of one of these men at some point. It is easy to forget that pre 20th century the whole World ran on what we would now describe as Third World economics. Nothing thrown away that could be used, remade, recycled or moved on for a modest profit. The original hilt could have been silver, and so knocked off and sold as bullion. Attached Images

17th October 2015, 11:44 AM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	would make a nice pillow sword. good use for a broken blade...

17th October 2015, 07:13 PM	#7
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	I agree with Ulfberth as far as a gentleman's sword. I would venture the possibility that it might be Spanish colonial in origin. If so, it would still be a "composite", but one of the contemporary period made for the constraints of a provincial locale that made due with the parts they had available to them. German sword smiths were continuously selling their wares to the Spanish and English craftsman all the time. I used to have a Spanish broadsword with the classic marking "Do not draw me without reason..." motto (in Spanish) by a well-known German maker (their marking and Solingen on blade. I likewise found an old copy of their workmanship being shipped to S. America). Likewise, the hilt/guard strikes me as Spanish colonial in its simplicity, functionality, and open style. The crude finials, with their simple line and cross design, screams Span-colonial to me. In Brincherhoff's volume, we see these patterns on some of the swords pictured. Likewise, Brazilian espada ancha (discussed on this forum in the past) has the same type of line/star patterning and 'C' shapes to their guards (and I do mean the exact same C shape!). I would guess that it might be later (mid-18th) despite its earlier pattern given that Span colonial pieces frequently were behind the times when it came to form (case in point, bilbos and cuphilts still being used in the Americas as late as the first quarter of the 19th c.) Check out the thread from this forum "On the origin of the so-called Berber sabers" and take a look at Dmitri's shell guard, complete with 'C's. I've seen this patterning on these types of Span colonial pieces frequently. Mark Last edited by M ELEY; 17th October 2015 at 07:31 PM.

18th October 2015, 06:26 AM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,946	Ulfberth brings up very good points on the combining of a quality blade and the cruder components seen here. I think that Mark has very valid points concerning these crudely fashioned components, and the idea that this might fall into the incredibly wide spectrum of these kinds of weapons in Spain's colonies. As noted, the crude work on the bilobate guard seems fashioned after smallsword shapes, but clearly is not of such quality. The interesting motif of alternating semi arc punches is indeed seen in variation on other known Spanish colonial weapons. The quillon block and stubby paddle like quillons seem as if from those on a hirshfanger , and of course incongruent with the bilobate shell guard. I have seen Mexican multi bar hilts with disc type base, with redundant cross guards underneath in this same manner. As I look at the curious chop mark style motif on the quillons, they remind me of the stamped marks from lead ballast bars used in the early ships of sail, and often on the bars of bullion. Again, these kinds of marking seem to occur in rudimentary fashion on the blacksmith quality fabrications of these colonial outposts. It does seem unlikely that a quality Solingen blade from this maker would have filtered into the trade networks entering the Spanish Main and its ports of call. It is well known that Solingen was producing many blades for Spain and its colonies, with many using spurious Toledo stamps and makers names in the latter 17th century , well through the 18th. The espada ancha of the Spanish colonial frontiers was fashioned after the hangers of 17th century Europe and England.As the smallsword of the 18th century evolved, it was of course likely the inspiration in similar manner for many colonial artisans fashioning court type swords for the status conscious officials and aristocrats of these remote places. Purely speculation of course, but of reasonable plausibility considering these elements.

18th October 2015, 07:17 PM	#9
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 400	Hi Mark and jim, I agree as you pointed out, the guard plate is indeed of Spanish colonial style, however the smith who forged the guard plate with the C marks would at the same time carved these C marks on the pommel. Like Jim said it is unlikely that a blade of this quality was originally ordered for this guard. When did these three different components find each other ? Were they put together from used parts to make a weapon for the colonies ? This could very well be and is likely the case, however I find it unlikely that the person who assembled these parts is also the maker of them , because if he was than the pommel and the guard plate would have the same C marks. Still, this small sword can be of historical value as a re using of old parts and as David well pointed out was perhaps purely done for economical reasons. Kind regards Ulfberth