Kris question to the knowledgeables

[Pusaka]

I think the Keris is older then the kris. Perhaps the Keris shape influenced the shaping of native long bladed bush knives so that gradually they developed and took on a more keris like appearance. I think that they are probably pre Islamic also. The general symbolism would be the same though.

[Pusaka]

I think many of the vedic symbolisms involved with the keris are touch upon in this article http://www.yoga-age.com/articles/lightonvrtra.html

[Pusaka]

You will often hear people say that a Keris should have an odd number of luk to be considered as a good keris. If you ask them why, they most certainly don’t know why.
If we count the number of luk on the side of Indra we will see that there is more then on the side of Vrtra. Symbolically it represents that the Keris is a good keris as Indra has won the battle over Vrtra.The right hand side aspects (good) win over the left hand aspects (evil). If the number of lux was even this would not be the case and the keris would then be considered a bad keris.

[Pusaka]

If we remember that Indra is a war god the elephant he rides is a battle elephant. War elephants often had headdresses attached to the head and trunk. These armour headdresses often had sharp spikes attached. This would explain the spikes on the Gajah as being an elephant armour headdress.

[nechesh]

Pusaka, i think you need to get your mode of thinking about the keris and it's significance out of the sphere of battles and war. Your martial thinking is not leading you to a proper understanding of the keris. Your concepts of "good vs. evil" are very western. Yes, the keris is in the form of an edged weapon, but it's significance goes deeper than that.

[MABAGANI]

On the contrary, one can't describe unity without leaving the field of unity, so there are guide posts or symbols to point the way which appear dualistic depending on the state of mind. too esoteric, pm

[nechesh]

Originally Posted by MABAGANI

On the contrary, one can't describe unity without leaving the field of unity, so there are guide posts or symbols to point the way which appear dualistic depending on the state of mind. too esoteric, pm

I am not questioning the dualistic approach per se as being too western, just the absolute B&W, good & evil understanding. Those who follow the cult of Kali are not necessarily "evil", they merely have a different perspective. Yes, it is esoteric and complex....

[Rick]

Please explain this ricikan and greneng with your vedic war elephant theory .
There are a fairly high percentage of keris that lack detail in the ricikan from Jawa and the Celebes ; I have even seen Moro kris with plain ricikan .

[Pusaka]

Originally Posted by nechesh

Pusaka, i think you need to get your mode of thinking about the keris and it's significance out of the sphere of battles and war. Your martial thinking is not leading you to a proper understanding of the keris. Your concepts of "good vs. evil" are very western. Yes, the keris is in the form of an edged weapon, but it's significance goes deeper than that.

Ok since you seam to think that everything I have said is wrong then maybe you can correct me? Don’t give me the “I don’t know but I know your wrong” treatment because it’s not smart.

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by Pusaka

Ok since you seam to think that everything I have said is wrong then maybe you can correct me? Don’t give me the “I don’t know but I know your wrong” treatment because it’s not smart.

A fair request, Pusaka. But a bit defensive as phrased. Let's all take a breath and try to share information in a non-confrontational manner.

Thanks.