Basket hilted swords

Jim McDougall · 3rd October 2015, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ulfberth

Hi Jim,

Thanks for your comment, the 'garrison' look makes sense since the cross guard plate has the style of the Pattern 1796 Heavy Cavalry Trooper's Sword. I've looked but I can't seem to find a similar hilt anywhere.

kind regards

Ulfberth

My pleasure, thank you for sharing this!
As I cannot see the hilt entirely, do you mean the bottom of the hilt (stool) which does seem to have piercings similar to those on the M1796 heavy cavalry sword?
The spirally gadrooned grip on this seems atypical as well, and more of the 'smallsword' or court sword type of the period.
It is hard to say whether this is an authentically working life armourers work or more modern assembly without having it in hand, but if it is indeed aged in accord in all components it could be of Napoleonic period.

All best regards,
Jim

ulfberth · 3rd October 2015, 06:43 PM

Hi Jim,

this is the part I mean , I hope to hold the sword in my hands so post more pics.

Kind regards

Ulfberth

Jim McDougall · 5th October 2015, 01:30 AM

Wow, that is of course most definitely the disc hilt, and an interesting mélange of components, but solidly done. I have seen these kinds of assemblies from various sword types in frontier instances in colonial places such as Mexico, but not with basket hilts like this. In the colonial cases these were in largely rural areas where quantities of swords or blades etc were not readily available, but in the Scottish and English areas as well as on the Continent this was certainly not the case.

ulfberth · 7th October 2015, 10:22 AM

Here are the other pictures, If someone has more information on this kind of hilt it would be most welcome.
Total length 104
Blade width at the base 4 cm
No stamps or regiment numbers.

Thanks

Ulfberth

Cathey · 18th October 2015, 01:42 AM

hi Guys

I have gone through all of my baskets and have nothing with a base like this one. If someone out there has one similar, please post for comparison. Very nice sword though and extremely unusual hilt configuration overall.

Cheers Cathey and Rex

ulfberth · 19th October 2015, 08:30 AM

Thanks for your comment Catey,
I'm having concerns about the way the hilt is riveted on to the guard plate, and I could nor find an other basket hilt made this way.
For the moment this remains a mystery and I'm wondering if this is a military assembly or a later composite sword.
kind regards

Ulfberth

E.B. Erickson · 24th October 2015, 07:41 AM

When I saw Ulfberth's sword, it set off bells in my head - but where had I seen that before? Figured it out. Wood's book has one, and so does Mazansky.
Mazansky p.188 has a hilt just like the one in Ulfberth's photos. Differences: pommel is nicer on Ulfberth's, and the one in Mazansky has screws instead of rivets. Ulfbeth's also looks like the shield (Mazansky's terminology) has been modified.
I'd post a scan, but I don't have a scanner, so I'll leave that to someone else.

Mazansky notes a possible French connection (not the Gene Hackman version), with possible manufacture dates of late 17-early 1800s, but also notes that this remains to be proven.

I need to post the rest of my baskets in this thread.

--ElJay

3rd October 2015, 06:43 PM	#2
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 412	Hi Jim, this is the part I mean , I hope to hold the sword in my hands so post more pics. Kind regards Ulfberth Attached Images

7th October 2015, 10:22 AM	#4
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 412	Here are the other pictures, If someone has more information on this kind of hilt it would be most welcome. Total length 104 Blade width at the base 4 cm No stamps or regiment numbers. Thanks Ulfberth Attached Images

18th October 2015, 01:42 AM	#5
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 284	Unusual base to Basket hilt hi Guys I have gone through all of my baskets and have nothing with a base like this one. If someone out there has one similar, please post for comparison. Very nice sword though and extremely unusual hilt configuration overall. Cheers Cathey and Rex

5th October 2015, 01:30 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,189	Wow, that is of course most definitely the disc hilt, and an interesting mélange of components, but solidly done. I have seen these kinds of assemblies from various sword types in frontier instances in colonial places such as Mexico, but not with basket hilts like this. In the colonial cases these were in largely rural areas where quantities of swords or blades etc were not readily available, but in the Scottish and English areas as well as on the Continent this was certainly not the case.

19th October 2015, 08:30 AM	#6
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 412	Thanks for your comment Catey, I'm having concerns about the way the hilt is riveted on to the guard plate, and I could nor find an other basket hilt made this way. For the moment this remains a mystery and I'm wondering if this is a military assembly or a later composite sword. kind regards Ulfberth

24th October 2015, 07:41 AM	#7
E.B. Erickson Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 61	When I saw Ulfberth's sword, it set off bells in my head - but where had I seen that before? Figured it out. Wood's book has one, and so does Mazansky. Mazansky p.188 has a hilt just like the one in Ulfberth's photos. Differences: pommel is nicer on Ulfberth's, and the one in Mazansky has screws instead of rivets. Ulfbeth's also looks like the shield (Mazansky's terminology) has been modified. I'd post a scan, but I don't have a scanner, so I'll leave that to someone else. Mazansky notes a possible French connection (not the Gene Hackman version), with possible manufacture dates of late 17-early 1800s, but also notes that this remains to be proven. I need to post the rest of my baskets in this thread. --ElJay