The development of the Indian katar

Jens Nordlunde · 25th September 2015, 02:06 PM

Ian,

I am by no way a specialist when it comes to stone pieces, but the one you showed could be 16th or 17th century - I am sure the text will show.
Wh have however come a stem further as we now know taht the stone is from Gujarat and likely to be quite old. To this comes that a katar of the same kind as shown in the Hanza is shown.
This katar base was used for centuries, but the earliest I have seen is in the Hamza, and I think it is safe to say, that the stone must be older than 18th century, so 16th to 17th century would not surprice me.
Photographing text on an old worn stone is at best very difficult, and to get someone why knows many if the different languages to go and have a look may be even more difficult.

Emanuel,
Thank you for the pictures they are quite interesting.
Yes we know that the katar was used in Deccan, south India, Rajasthan and maybe even more to the north in the 16th century. It does howeven seem as if it was used less in Rajasthan than to the south - although there is very little evidence to prove this.
It would be fantastic if proof could be found of how the katar developed from the drawing Rajendralala Mitra shows to the fully developed katar shown in the Hamza and other miniatures from the time.

Emanuel · 25th September 2015, 02:31 PM

One last picture Jens, for posterity. Egerton's plate of the arms of Akbar, from the Ain-i-Akbari.

As for Rajasthan, I had seen a great many jamadhars in Bikaner but sadly they were not dated.

Hopefully Elgood's books on the Jodhpur and Jaipur armouries will shine more light into the matter.

Jens Nordlunde · 25th September 2015, 03:25 PM

Emanuel,
Thanks for the pictures from Bikaner. I have never been there, unfortunately, but I have seem pictures from the armoury, and it is quite impressive.
A lot of weapons formerly in the Bikaner armoury are now in museums or private collections, so the collection must have been very big before they started to sell from it.
It is well known that a lot of the weapons in the armoury come from Adoni, when the Bikaner Maharaja Anup Singh sacked the fort and returned a lot of booty to Bikaner, while he stayed down there. Other of the weapons likely come from other places in Deccan where Anup Singh also participated in fighting. The problem is, that I have never seen a list showing which weapons come from the south, and which were made at Bikaner.
When looking at your pictures it is interesting to see how many of the katars are chiselled but without any gold or silver decoration, and how many are undecorated.
The plate you show from Egerton shows different types of katars, but they all have the V-shaped base - it must have been fashion at the time.
Robert's book from Jaipur is out and for sale. Arms and Armour at the Jaipur Court. The Royal Collection. ISBN 978-93-83098-77-4.
The Jodhpur book showld be out later this year I have been told.
Jens

25th September 2015, 02:31 PM	#2
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	One last picture Jens, for posterity. Egerton's plate of the arms of Akbar, from the Ain-i-Akbari. As for Rajasthan, I had seen a great many jamadhars in Bikaner but sadly they were not dated. Hopefully Elgood's books on the Jodhpur and Jaipur armouries will shine more light into the matter. Attached Images

25th September 2015, 02:06 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Ian, I am by no way a specialist when it comes to stone pieces, but the one you showed could be 16th or 17th century - I am sure the text will show. Wh have however come a stem further as we now know taht the stone is from Gujarat and likely to be quite old. To this comes that a katar of the same kind as shown in the Hanza is shown. This katar base was used for centuries, but the earliest I have seen is in the Hamza, and I think it is safe to say, that the stone must be older than 18th century, so 16th to 17th century would not surprice me. Photographing text on an old worn stone is at best very difficult, and to get someone why knows many if the different languages to go and have a look may be even more difficult. Emanuel, Thank you for the pictures they are quite interesting. Yes we know that the katar was used in Deccan, south India, Rajasthan and maybe even more to the north in the 16th century. It does howeven seem as if it was used less in Rajasthan than to the south - although there is very little evidence to prove this. It would be fantastic if proof could be found of how the katar developed from the drawing Rajendralala Mitra shows to the fully developed katar shown in the Hamza and other miniatures from the time.

25th September 2015, 03:25 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Emanuel, Thanks for the pictures from Bikaner. I have never been there, unfortunately, but I have seem pictures from the armoury, and it is quite impressive. A lot of weapons formerly in the Bikaner armoury are now in museums or private collections, so the collection must have been very big before they started to sell from it. It is well known that a lot of the weapons in the armoury come from Adoni, when the Bikaner Maharaja Anup Singh sacked the fort and returned a lot of booty to Bikaner, while he stayed down there. Other of the weapons likely come from other places in Deccan where Anup Singh also participated in fighting. The problem is, that I have never seen a list showing which weapons come from the south, and which were made at Bikaner. When looking at your pictures it is interesting to see how many of the katars are chiselled but without any gold or silver decoration, and how many are undecorated. The plate you show from Egerton shows different types of katars, but they all have the V-shaped base - it must have been fashion at the time. Robert's book from Jaipur is out and for sale. Arms and Armour at the Jaipur Court. The Royal Collection. ISBN 978-93-83098-77-4. The Jodhpur book showld be out later this year I have been told. Jens