Indian Mace

[Jim McDougall]

Brian,
I am with the others in thinking this a bit too 'theatrical' for an actual combative weapon. These dramatically lengthy spikes and in this kind of profusion would render this weapon more a hindrance than realistically useful item. As has been mentioned, these spikes becoming lodged in their target would effectively remove it from further use.

I agree on the 'parade' or 'dramatic prop' probability, and it seems I have seen 'staged' photos of 'fierce' warriors with these kinds of items from the latter 19th early 20th c.

[mrcjgscott]

Hello Brian,

I have to concur with Jim and the others. That smooth grip would ensure you lost your primary weapon on the first swing.

The intimidation factor of such a piece however would be invaluable, so purely as a ceremonial/parade piece makes sense to me.

Kind regards,

Chris

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by mrcjgscott

Hello Brian,

I have to concur with Jim and the others. That smooth grip would ensure you lost your primary weapon on the first swing. The intimidation factor of such a piece however would be invaluable, so purely as a ceremonial/parade piece makes sense to me.

Kind regards,

Chris

What looks smooth now may have been covered at one time. Sometimes I think the label "ceremonial/parade" gets used to quickly as a way to explain weapons that we currently do not have sufficient research on.

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by estcrh

What looks smooth now may have been covered at one time. Sometimes I think the label "ceremonial/parade" gets used to quickly as a way to explain weapons that we currently do not have sufficient research on.

I agree, always Muharam festival, it's easy. Fakir and sufi used different kind of weapons and they had nothing to do with muharam...

[mrcjgscott]

Originally Posted by estcrh

What looks smooth now may have been covered at one time.

Perfectly true.

It was the combination of a smooth grip coupled with the profusion and length of the spikes as previously mentioned, which make me agree the weapon was impractical.

I am happy to be educated on such things though...

[kronckew]

it indeed may have had a leather grip between the bulbous bits and even a velvet covered shaft.

i don't think having a more secure grip would make it any more practical, in fact i'd bet having it slip out of your hand after getting stuck in the target would be an advantage rather than pulling you along with it because you didn't lose your grip soon enough.

even if you used it and didn't lose it (or your own life) it would be rather difficult to clean.

most islamic & indopersian maces were basically ovoids or cylinders without flanges or spikes to get caught in clothing or armour (or flesh). the most extreme maybe the head shaped ones, or the flat sided hex/octa-gonal types.

even european spiked and flanged maces the pointy bits were normally anything but acute so they would be unlikely to get stuck. the more extreme decorative ones being just that, decorative.

[Edward F]

It looks to me like the real thing although realy need pictures of different areas of the weapon .Most likely the weapon was carried by foot soldier not on horse back Looks to me like a two handed weapon no need to have two bulbas points for one handed use.I agree not a great weapon to use. But its weapon.

[ward]

19th century sounds about right I have seen a number of them. It is a valid piece from that culture. Remember the rich got armor peasants were on there own.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by kronckew

most islamic & indopersian maces were basically ovoids or cylinders without flanges or spikes to get caught in clothing or armour (or flesh). the most extreme maybe the head shaped ones, or the flat sided hex/octa-gonal types.

I have to disagree with you, take a look at this link and see how many flanged Indo-Persian maces you see.

https://www.pinterest.com/worldantiq...persian-maces/

[estcrh]

How maces like this were used, who used them and when is clearly up for debate. There are quite a few examples, no matter what, you have to admit that they are an aggressive looking weapon, maybe thats the point of them.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by estcrh

I have to disagree with you, take a look at this link and see how many flanged Indo-Persian maces you see.

https://www.pinterest.com/worldantiq...persian-maces/

the flanged maces there looked like european style ones they may have copied. the persians were in contact with the byzantines and crusaders and could have captured ones they copied. the flanges again have very wide angle 'points' to avoid getting stuck while still concentrating the force when hitting armour.

your later post also shows a nice ball mace with quite short spikes, again fine for concentrating the force and preventing skidding on plate armour, while being less likely to get stuck in cloth or mail. a lot of the really spiky maces shown have rather bent spikes which would degrade their performance.

another note, a lance is a primary weapon used mostly in a shoulder to shoulder charge, and is really designed to break or be dropped after the initial shock & penetration of your opponent, whereupon they would revert to a secondary weapon, an estoc or sabre, or maybe just a sabre. a lance is a poor weapon if you are in the melee and within sabre range of your opponent who is past your point. lancers in general in later years were lightly armed reconaissance and persuit units, good for spearing a broken and fleeing enemy.

as commented by a heavy cavalryman in a military tv series, 'once you get past the point, it's like killing rabbits'.

the horned devil maces are as noted earlier, light and generally considered qajar parade pieces. 19c maces were well past their sell-by date.

i tend to go by occam's razor - the simplest explanation is usually, but not always, the best. i remain open to persuasion. whacking a ballistic gel dummy dressed in indian style mail & plate, or padded cloth armour ala mythbusters might be informative experimental archaeology.