keris Ciribon for sharing

[semar]

I found this keris two days ago around wear i stay
the pendok is made of silver i let it check yesterday
dapur of this keris wil be Sempana and the pamor is berwas wutah

gerards semar

[A. G. Maisey]

Very nice indeed.

[Henk]

Lovely!!

[David]

Well damn Henk, lovely was the word i was going to use.
Beautiful and unusual pendok. Can anyone put this in a time frame?

[sirek]

Originally Posted by David

Well damn Henk, lovely was the word i was going to use.
Beautiful and unusual pendok. Can anyone put this in a time frame?

I have seen this model twice in a in a Dutch auction, described period of the seller: MATARAM, CA 1550 1600 same period of time was described for the big keris second photo

but if this is true, I would not know.
( I only know that the seller has had enough knowledge to know what he says )

[A. G. Maisey]

As we all know, it is very difficult, almost impossible, to appraise a keris from a photo, however, on this occasion I am brave --- or stupid --- enough to make a couple of limited comments.

The primary keris in post #5, that is to say, the blade, is most probably East Jawa/Madura. It may be 16th century, but it does not display any of the characteristics that we normally associate with a keris that is classifiable as "Mataram".

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

The primary keris in post #5, that is to say, the blade, is most probably East Jawa/Madura. It may be 16th century, but it does not display any of the characteristics that we normally associate with a keris that is classifiable as "Mataram".

As to my original question on timeframe, it was specifically directed at this form of pendok, not any of the blades shown. For me to is not a form of pendok i have often seen and was more curious about what era such a pendok might have first appeared or been popular. Any comments on that Alan?

[drdavid]

Just adding to the list of people admiring this keris, the blade is very nice and the pendok intriguing, like an interpretation of a European sword
DrD

[A. G. Maisey]

No David, no worthwhile comment on that style of pendok. I have seen pictures of a several of these and they always seem to be identified as North Coast/Cirebon, but I cannot remember handling one and I cannot give a supportable ID or time frame. I do have a very old wooden Cirebon wrongko where the gandar is shaped like this pendok style, so it very likely is Cirebon.

I have recollection of somebody telling me quite recently that this style of pendok has started to be made again by somebody, but I forget the details.

[asomotif]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

No David, no worthwhile comment on that style of pendok. I have seen pictures of a several of these and they always seem to be identified as North Coast/Cirebon, but I cannot remember handling one and I cannot give a supportable ID or time frame. I do have a very old wooden Cirebon wrongko where the gandar is shaped like this pendok style, so it very likely is Cirebon.

I have recollection of somebody telling me quite recently that this style of pendok has started to be made again by somebody, but I forget the details.

Good evening Alan

Here is a picture from this forum. Is this the type of wrongko / gandar you are referring to ?

As for the silver pendok in this style.
I have seen them popping up in the Netherlands for a few years now.
I am under the impression that they might be recent productions after an old model. I find them attractive regardsless of age or origin.

Best regards,
Willem

[David]

Originally Posted by asomotif

Here is a picture from this forum. Is this the type of wrongko / gandar you are referring to ?

As for the silver pendok in this style.
I have seen them popping up in the Netherlands for a few years now.
I am under the impression that they might be recent productions after an old model. I find them attractive regardsless of age or origin.

Yes Willem, i have seen this style of wooden gandar before.
On dating the pendok, i was thinking the same thing. The one posted by Sirek in the single keris shot seems older and of a finer quality than Semar's. Could very well be a revival of an old form. Still curious when this form may have originated, but provenance will probably be difficult unless one turns up in a museum collection somewhere with a definite collection date attached.

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes Willem, that keris you show is a dead ringer for the one I have.

The gandar form as shown by Willem existed before 1700, I have no idea when the pendok that echoes this form for first appeared, however, based upon the use of pendok in other forms, my guess would be that it probably didn't come into being prior to the 19th century.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by asomotif

As for the silver pendok in this style.
I have seen them popping up in the Netherlands for a few years now.
I am under the impression that they might be recent productions after an old model. I find them attractive regardsless of age or origin.

Hello Willem,
I agree with your statement. In his book "Tafsir Keris", Toni Junus calls this style of pendok "Kasepuhan Cirebon" or Old Cirebon.
I attach 2 pics of an old piece from my collection.
Regards
PS: One (not particularly reliable) book published by the Jakarta National Museum in 1983 attributes this style of pendok to Banten and not Cirebon.

[Battara]

I just love this style of pendok!

[asomotif]

Originally Posted by Jean

I attach 2 pics of an old piece from my collection.

Thank you Jean,

Here you see indeed the expected wear of the pendok.
Nice blade as well !

[Jean]

Originally Posted by asomotif

Here you see indeed the expected wear of the pendok.
Nice blade as well !

Thanks Willem, the pendok is a bit damaged on the back but it is not critical. I bought this piece from a Dutch seller whom you probably know... Regards