Interesting belt

[kahnjar1]

Hi Rick,
A really interesting belt if I may say so. Just a guess, but maybe Japanese due to the many Lotus shaped bits and emblems.............
Possibly the slots on the two outer "joiners" could be used for hanging something?
Stu

[David R]

I would suggest North India heading towards Afghanistan Tibet and Central Asia. I am going by the hanger slots which are very Central Asian and the armoured-belt theme which you also see in Tibet and Bhutan. The studs remind me of some on an Afghan game pouch I once had. Buckles are not really common in the traditional Japanese repertoire and lotus is a decorative element used all through the east.
Overall my money would be on Tibet or Bhutan for the origin of this piece.
This is a very nice piece, thank you for sharing.

Dave

[RSWORD]

Thanks guys for the responses so far. The background I was holding a bit pending some discussion was the oral provenance of this item. The person I picked this up from stated he purchased this belt, along with a few other items I ended up with, from a Tibetan monestary. It does not follow any known example of Tibetan belt work and I tend to agree with the suggestion it could be from surrounding regions. I think India is a real possibility. In the book Tibetan arms and armour you see Tibetan monestaries with many tulwars mounted on the walls. Certainly they have picked up over the centuries many arms from neighboring countries. The fact it was found in Tibet in the 1970's adds to the story a bit but one can certainly understand how it ended up there.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by RSWORD

Thanks guys for the responses so far. The background I was holding a bit pending some discussion was the oral provenance of this item. The person I picked this up from stated he purchased this belt, along with a few other items I ended up with, from a Tibetan monestary. It does not follow any known example of Tibetan belt work and I tend to agree with the suggestion it could be from surrounding regions. I think India is a real possibility. In the book Tibetan arms and armour you see Tibetan monestaries with many tulwars mounted on the walls. Certainly they have picked up over the centuries many arms from neighboring countries. The fact it was found in Tibet in the 1970's adds to the story a bit but one can certainly understand how it ended up there.

Salaams RSWORD ...I was following up a lead on Tibet....and I see you are also looking in that direction...It is interesting as I have seen the small floral shaped designs before on Portuguese Chests non of which I have left so no one would believe me...ha!

I present this single bit of evidence I stumbled upon today...of a Tibetan box.
A close resemblance to the main clasp style. see https://www.etsy.com/market/buddhist_hindu where it is advertised as a good fortune box ~ Chinese Buddhist Hindu ...which you could ascribe to Tibet.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Bob A]

I'm vaguely reminded of cloud collar designs, which seem to have spread eastward from China, if I recall correctly. Tashkent designs, and some from Samarkand, carried this sort of motif. Of course, they're only a bit north of Tibet.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams RSWORD ...I was following up a lead on Tibet....and I see you are also looking in that direction...It is interesting as I have seen the small floral shaped designs before on Portuguese Chests non of which I have left so no one would believe me...ha!

I present this single bit of evidence I stumbled upon today...of a Tibetan box.
A close resemblance to the main clasp style. see https://www.etsy.com/market/buddhist_hindu where it is advertised as a good fortune box ~ Chinese Buddhist Hindu ...which you could ascribe to Tibet.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Excellent supporting reference Ibrahiim. It is interesting to see how these often key decorative themes and motif are transferred and diffused widely in material culture of many diverse cultures and regions.
You say this design was on Portuguese chests, were these of Chinese or Oriental make for trade? or would they have been of Portuguese make using foreign designs?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Excellent supporting reference Ibrahiim. It is interesting to see how these often key decorative themes and motif are transferred and diffused widely in material culture of many diverse cultures and regions.
You say this design was on Portuguese chests, were these of Chinese or Oriental make for trade? or would they have been of Portuguese make using foreign designs?

Salaams Jim, This is an interesting question ... Portuguese ... or sometimes called Omani-Portuguese chests were used as transport and ships storage boxes for trade items spices etc...and called sugar boxes ...which roughly I can spell in Portuguese "caixas a sugar..." When the Portuguese left Muscat in 1650 it was at something of a rush and many of these huge heavy boxes were left behind and over the centuries diffused into the surrounding areas..They are magnificent chests and decorated very simply except in the case of the chests on chests..or chest of drawers. I will show both as they all sport the lovely little floral shaped metal shapes in question....and on top of the storage boxes another shape much bigger about 2 inches across...iron and often tinned...(which has all but worn off)...One small chest is Portuguese Goan and either a scribes box or Bible Box. I found a couple of old pictures of some of mine from 10/20 years ago...oddly enough the nearest miniature floral metalwork are in brass on a big 9 drawer chest.. and the other similar but slightly different ironwork shows on the fronts of the storage chests chest/storage chest combinations...I show an old Indian door with bigger stud work...and I think the full range of miniature and larger metal stud work was relatively available across the entire subcontinent...though the project belt does seem to be Tibetan.
To answer your question on the Oriental point... These chests were distinctly Portuguese or Portuguese\ Goan...and can be traced via the Portuguese museums and various documentary sources...
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

Ibrahiim, thank you for the fascinating and detailed response!!! These are truly interesting chests and would really make for some great context items in display groupings!
I think this forum is a great accent to our others as the kinds of items discussed here reflect material culture contemporary and in the style of many items which were indeed in context of the weapons we study.

Rick, this is really a nice example, and it would seem to be Tibetan as pretty much the consensus here. I wonder if it would have been to hold some of the ceremonial items often worn as accoutrements by monks in the temples?

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

...and called sugar boxes ...which roughly I can spell in Portuguese "caixas a sugar..."

'Caixas de açucar', is the term. When speaking of furniture of the "caixa de açucar" style, we are referring to examples made with boards saved from the boxes used to transport sugar from Madeira Islands and Brasil, their great sugar competitor. Various kinds of exotic wood were used, but what counted was the box format. Although of variable capacity during periods and origin, they were 'standardized' containers for the transport of a determined quantity of 'pães de açucar' (sugar breads), so called due to the typical clay cones in which the sugar was 'packed'.
This type of furniture started by being of the utility type and later of style, namely pieces of one and two bodies, like the cup cabinets of the Dutch style, a fashion divulged in Portugal in the end of the 1600's, as well as chests.


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