First Moro Kris (Straight Sulu piece)

David · 28th August 2015, 02:58 PM

I wouldn't argue with any of Roland's advice necessarily. I would certainly do all i could to remove the rust.
It's nice to see good lamination on what i assume is a later era kris. I would need closer examination, but your gangya does not seem to be a separate piece. A line has bee incised in the blade where that separation would have been.
The sheath is a nice example of this form. Also a later type. Looks like most if not all of the M.O.P. is intact. And i suppose the other material is tortoise shell? Nicely done.

Croccifixio · 28th August 2015, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I wouldn't argue with any of Roland's advice necessarily. I would certainly do all i could to remove the rust.
It's nice to see good lamination on what i assume is a later era kris. I would need closer examination, but your gangya does not seem to be a separate piece. A line has bee incised in the blade where that separation would have been.
The sheath is a nice example of this form. Also a later type. Looks like most if not all of the M.O.P. is intact. And i suppose the other material is tortoise shell? Nicely done.

Yes I agree that this seems to be a late era (post 50s) kris that was made in homage of its older brethren. The scabbard mouth is indeed covered by a piece of tortoise shell. The middle ridge along its length is prominent. The other side of the mouth and along it is plated aluminum. Mang Ven theorized this was scavenged off a crashed airplane. I also checked the gangya and it's not separate, since the incision trails off right at the end on one side. The blade is still wonderful - well polished, smooth, and clearly laminated. It has a single nick which might or might not mean usage, and it's quite sharp. Light doesn't reflect along the edge.

Thanks for all the advice. There's another Sulu kris which looks to be much older that I might purchase. I'm still vacillating between that kris and a barong, or even a kampilan (though I'm not the biggest fan of Maranao/Maguindanao weapons). I do have to sell most of my repros though.

Sajen · 28th August 2015, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Looks like most if not all of the M.O.P. is intact. And i suppose the other material is tortoise shell? Nicely done.

Hello David,

agree with everything you have said but think that the panel in the back from the scabbard is from aluminium and not from M.O.P. and in the front from horn instead of tortoise shell but I could be wrong. Maybe Joren can clarify.

Regards,
Detlef

David · 28th August 2015, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello David,

agree with everything you have said but think that the panel in the back from the scabbard is from aluminium and not from M.O.P. and in the front from horn instead of tortoise shell but I could be wrong. Maybe Joren can clarify.

Regards,
Detlef

Could be Detlef. Photos aren't really clear or close enough. I assumed the M.O.P. because i have seen it before on this sheath form.
I suspect this could be from sometime after WWII, though some might have other ideas. The hilt wrappings (and possibly the entire hilt) seem newer.

kronckew · 28th August 2015, 06:08 PM

the green on the asang is verdigris, very poisonous. on a small area like that you could use an old toothbrush (throw away/destroy afterwards) and a paste of baking soda & water to scrub it off, then rinse with warm water, dry lubricate. wash your hands well before eating.

i use ballistol myself. be careful of course not to get any (water/paste/ballistol) on the grips. ballistol tends to darken brass, giving it a nice patina. ballistol is mostly mineral oil with a few additives. some people do not like the anise/licorice smell. it was developed as a general purpose weapons cleaning and preserving fluid in the late 19c by the germans. it's even used medicinally as an antiseptic wound treatment. good for steel, or wood, tho it may darken it. same for leather. not recommended for cloth. it's a food grade edible product that can be used on food preparation equipment. not sure how it would fare on a complex kris hilt.

the steel should have any active (reddish or crumbly) rust mechanically removed as mentioned above. inspection is best done in sunlight to see the differences in the types/colours of the rust, red rust can look black indoors. the black patination in some areas should be left alone (but oiled).

brass brushes or brass wool, dental picks, pointy screwdriver, etc to break up any of the crusty red rust. olive oil makes a dandy lube for that. when you have absolutely all that will come off mechanically, you can stop, clean with hot soapy water, rinse with hot water, dry & lube with ballistol or mineral oil.

rust can also be stabilised after removing the loose stuff with tannic acid solutions. it's a safe product that will however turn the red cancerous form of rust into a stable black form, much admired and used on gun barrels. after treatment, neutralizing, rinsing, drying, you lube generously with ballistol & you are good for a fairly long time. p.s. - tea doesn't have enough tannins, it is used in beer and wine making and is available from some pharmacys or online. it's a powder you can mix in water. wear rubber gloves or be careful, it not poisonous but may discolour YOU...

in everything, take your time, be careful, do not expect a 5 minute effort to cure the problems.

google 'sword conservation' for more info, some is contradictory.

as may be some info here.

David · 28th August 2015, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

the green on the asang is verdigris, very poisonous. on a small area like that you could use an old toothbrush (throw away/destroy afterwards) and a paste of baking soda & water to scrub it off, then rinse with warm water, dry lubricate. wash your hands well before eating.

If this is verdigris (i'm not sure how you determined that from these photos) it is indeed poisonous if ingested, but as long as you aren't licking your asang-asang regularly you are probably safe.

kronckew · 28th August 2015, 06:40 PM

yes, but it looks icky & better safe than sorry.

if it is verdigris, it can rub off on other stuff, eventually getting on something you do lick.

...and kissing your sword is an old traditional ritual during oath takings.

David · 28th August 2015, 07:40 PM

It's not that easy to ingest Wayne. Here is an interesting account of women working in the industry that produced the stuff back in the 19th century.
http://tinyurl.com/p4p3q3r
And remember that this Old Lady that sees countless tourists every year is virtually clothed in the stuff.

kronckew · 28th August 2015, 08:08 PM

it's not easy being green.... they've cleaned the insides a couple of times. it was painted the std. US green that all government facilities have been and are painted in since year dot. i climbed up into the head back in the late 60's, the torch was closed as it was unsafe when i was there.

she originally looked like this: but we digress, so we should now return you to the regularly scheduled program. p.s. the US Govt. denies that the triangular shaped UFO upper right is of extra terrestrial origin.

28th August 2015, 06:08 PM	#5
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,238	the green on the asang is verdigris, very poisonous. on a small area like that you could use an old toothbrush (throw away/destroy afterwards) and a paste of baking soda & water to scrub it off, then rinse with warm water, dry lubricate. wash your hands well before eating. i use ballistol myself. be careful of course not to get any (water/paste/ballistol) on the grips. ballistol tends to darken brass, giving it a nice patina. ballistol is mostly mineral oil with a few additives. some people do not like the anise/licorice smell. it was developed as a general purpose weapons cleaning and preserving fluid in the late 19c by the germans. it's even used medicinally as an antiseptic wound treatment. good for steel, or wood, tho it may darken it. same for leather. not recommended for cloth. it's a food grade edible product that can be used on food preparation equipment. not sure how it would fare on a complex kris hilt. the steel should have any active (reddish or crumbly) rust mechanically removed as mentioned above. inspection is best done in sunlight to see the differences in the types/colours of the rust, red rust can look black indoors. the black patination in some areas should be left alone (but oiled). brass brushes or brass wool, dental picks, pointy screwdriver, etc to break up any of the crusty red rust. olive oil makes a dandy lube for that. when you have absolutely all that will come off mechanically, you can stop, clean with hot soapy water, rinse with hot water, dry & lube with ballistol or mineral oil. rust can also be stabilised after removing the loose stuff with tannic acid solutions. it's a safe product that will however turn the red cancerous form of rust into a stable black form, much admired and used on gun barrels. after treatment, neutralizing, rinsing, drying, you lube generously with ballistol & you are good for a fairly long time. p.s. - tea doesn't have enough tannins, it is used in beer and wine making and is available from some pharmacys or online. it's a powder you can mix in water. wear rubber gloves or be careful, it not poisonous but may discolour YOU... in everything, take your time, be careful, do not expect a 5 minute effort to cure the problems. google 'sword conservation' for more info, some is contradictory. as may be some info here. Last edited by kronckew; 28th August 2015 at 06:27 PM.

28th August 2015, 07:40 PM	#8
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,229	It's not that easy to ingest Wayne. Here is an interesting account of women working in the industry that produced the stuff back in the 19th century. http://tinyurl.com/p4p3q3r And remember that this Old Lady that sees countless tourists every year is virtually clothed in the stuff. Attached Images

28th August 2015, 08:08 PM	#9
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,238	it's not easy being green.... they've cleaned the insides a couple of times. it was painted the std. US green that all government facilities have been and are painted in since year dot. i climbed up into the head back in the late 60's, the torch was closed as it was unsafe when i was there. she originally looked like this: but we digress, so we should now return you to the regularly scheduled program. p.s. the US Govt. denies that the triangular shaped UFO upper right is of extra terrestrial origin. Attached Images

28th August 2015, 02:58 PM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,229	I wouldn't argue with any of Roland's advice necessarily. I would certainly do all i could to remove the rust. It's nice to see good lamination on what i assume is a later era kris. I would need closer examination, but your gangya does not seem to be a separate piece. A line has bee incised in the blade where that separation would have been. The sheath is a nice example of this form. Also a later type. Looks like most if not all of the M.O.P. is intact. And i suppose the other material is tortoise shell? Nicely done.

28th August 2015, 06:40 PM	#7
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,238	yes, but it looks icky & better safe than sorry. if it is verdigris, it can rub off on other stuff, eventually getting on something you do lick. ...and kissing your sword is an old traditional ritual during oath takings.