what mandau is this?

Maurice · 20th August 2015, 01:50 PM

Alan, I didn't had the feeling you were arguing with me.
And if so I have no problem discussing.

I have several good friends, who also have lots of knowledge in the field, and even amongst them one is a doctor/anthropologist, with whom I discuss often.
For myself (and several other Borneo collectorfriends), we stick to the old books and facts. As nowadays even in Borneo don't know anymore how things were back than. On a regularly base we see our private collection pieces copied by carvers (who probably also looked at the forums), and trying to sell them on facebook or other sources.
I even once had been offered a mandau I have here hanging at my wall!

My earlier statement about the handle- and scabbard carvers are from the work of Nieuwenhuis himself, who did his expedition in the old days (he was the first who travelled Borneo from West to East). He also was an anthropologist and he describes in his work how things worked before 1900.
I will try to translate a passage as good as possible:

"However the Kayans are foreigners in the Kapoeas area, they made dayaks from surrounding areas dependent because of their art, such as carved antler handles.
The antler handles carved by Mendalam kayans, were very wanted by others living in the Kapoeas area, and they paid richly for it.
There are more tribes who were able to carve these handles, but only the Kayans excel in this art and their decorative hilts were immidiately recognised.
Almost all men are able to carve simple wooden hilts for their swords, of which they used hard dark wood. But only a few are able to internalize a higher level in this art. And besides that, also it was only allowed to carve antler handles if the carver did make several expeditions.
The youth were allowed to practice carving handles on wood and apebones.
Besides the hilts, also the scabbards had been traded outside their area."

PS. I ofcourse was aware that as for the age of the specific piece under discussion, you made no comment. But I wanted just to mention it looking at this piece directly, because that is where this thread had been started, and as explanation to Green.

A. G. Maisey · 21st August 2015, 09:06 AM

Thanks for your response Maurice, I'm pleased that you did not interpret my remarks as argumentative, they certainly were not intended to be, but could easily have been interpreted so, even though there is no essential difference between your remarks and my own. There was a difference in phrasing, but you have clarified that.

Thank you also for your translation.

Maurice · 24th August 2015, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Thanks for your response Maurice, I'm pleased that you did not interpret my remarks as argumentative, they certainly were not intended to be, but could easily have been interpreted so, even though there is no essential difference between your remarks and my own. There was a difference in phrasing, but you have clarified that.

Thank you also for your translation.

You're welcome Alan!

The Nieuwenhuis volumes unfortunately are not available (as far as I know) in English, but only in Dutch and German language, but it has some very beautifull old pictures in it taken during his expedition.
It would be worth having only because of the pictures, even if you would not understand the text. (I attached an image from one of the volumes, where you can see blades during manufacturing).

Kind regards,
Maurice

20th August 2015, 01:50 PM	#1
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,453	Alan, I didn't had the feeling you were arguing with me. And if so I have no problem discussing. I have several good friends, who also have lots of knowledge in the field, and even amongst them one is a doctor/anthropologist, with whom I discuss often. For myself (and several other Borneo collectorfriends), we stick to the old books and facts. As nowadays even in Borneo don't know anymore how things were back than. On a regularly base we see our private collection pieces copied by carvers (who probably also looked at the forums), and trying to sell them on facebook or other sources. I even once had been offered a mandau I have here hanging at my wall! My earlier statement about the handle- and scabbard carvers are from the work of Nieuwenhuis himself, who did his expedition in the old days (he was the first who travelled Borneo from West to East). He also was an anthropologist and he describes in his work how things worked before 1900. I will try to translate a passage as good as possible: "However the Kayans are foreigners in the Kapoeas area, they made dayaks from surrounding areas dependent because of their art, such as carved antler handles. The antler handles carved by Mendalam kayans, were very wanted by others living in the Kapoeas area, and they paid richly for it. There are more tribes who were able to carve these handles, but only the Kayans excel in this art and their decorative hilts were immidiately recognised. Almost all men are able to carve simple wooden hilts for their swords, of which they used hard dark wood. But only a few are able to internalize a higher level in this art. And besides that, also it was only allowed to carve antler handles if the carver did make several expeditions. The youth were allowed to practice carving handles on wood and apebones. Besides the hilts, also the scabbards had been traded outside their area." PS. I ofcourse was aware that as for the age of the specific piece under discussion, you made no comment. But I wanted just to mention it looking at this piece directly, because that is where this thread had been started, and as explanation to Green.

21st August 2015, 09:06 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Thanks for your response Maurice, I'm pleased that you did not interpret my remarks as argumentative, they certainly were not intended to be, but could easily have been interpreted so, even though there is no essential difference between your remarks and my own. There was a difference in phrasing, but you have clarified that. Thank you also for your translation.