Omani barrel.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Good morning Ibrahiim,

Thank you for the link in your first post of this thread, It is Very interesting!

From the forts to the date -palms and their uses, to the falaj/aelaj, to silver work. Time flew by as I read through it.
Thank you again.
Also, thank you for the 'new' link that I have yet to read.

As these barrels were mainly made in Persia, do they also show up on Persian arms? Logic would dictate so, but logic does not always apply.

I gather by what you say, that the stamps at the breech and tang are those of the barrel maker. Thank you for that.
RE. use;
I have seen barrels of this type where the touch-holes and pan are quite eroded from gasses, so it would appear some were used quite heavily.
Whether this was at festivities or what I have no way of telling!

Thanks again,
Richard.

Salaams Pukka Bundook...Im on a shocking computer in Doha airport...and on my way to Casablanca...yes the worn touch hole means lots of use..was it hunting...or fighting? or pageant or all of these? A lot of these barrels blew up...separated at the first barrel joint...likely through too much or the wrong powder being used... probably modern powder...

Regards,

Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[BANDOOK]

Saalam Ibhraahim,enjoy your morrocon trip,please post pictures of the souks selling morrocon arms,guess lots must be tourists stuff,but u will see originals too,now the moroccon govt does not allow exports and are protected,so I was told,cheers rajesh

[Pukka Bundook]

Dear Ibrahiim,

thank you for taking the trouble to reply with less than best equipment at the airport!

It appears a little unusual to me that a percentage of these barrels bust at 'the first joint' as pressure is rather low away from the breech.
I wonder if they were made more for ornament than for use?
If they were burst with modern powder of some kind, this would mean continued use, maybe at celebrations and the like.
Are you aware of any used in this manner?

It would appear that my title is miss-leading, as these barrels appear Persian & not Omani at all.

I have been searching on-line for Persian arms of this type, but found little.
Maybe I should catch up with Manouchehr again..........it has been a long time since we spoke!
One further question if I may;
The two stamps on the tang of the barrel; are these names?.....or maker's marks?

Thank you for your time,

Kind regards,
Richard.

[David R]

Bursting is often caused by a blockage rather than overloading. I would suspect multiple loads, as in the shooter didn't realise the previous one had not gone off............ I loaned a musket out to an inexperienced shooter for a re-enactment once, never again. I had to extract 3 unfired blank rounds when I got it back off him.

[Pukka Bundook]

David,

Yes, an air-space/gap between powder and projectile will do it, but it still sounds odd that Ibrahiim has seen quite a few that let go all at the same place, described as the first joint. (Apparently about 1/3 of the way from breech to muzzle) I have no good idea why this should be a consistent place to blow.

Best wishes,
Richard.

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

David,

Yes, an air-space/gap between powder and projectile will do it, but it still sounds odd that Ibrahiim has seen quite a few that let go all at the same place, described as the first joint. (Apparently about 1/3 of the way from breech to muzzle) I have no good idea why this should be a consistent place to blow.

Best wishes,
Richard.

Hi Richard.
It is unusual for these barrels to burst in the same location, the so called first ring each time. Hmmmm. I'm wondering if these Omani barrels have a larger breech chamber as compared to the actual bore size at the muzzle end? Similar to the Torador barrels, which I'm convinced do have. If so, and the taper begins near that first ring, that might be the reason for the failure at that point. Improperly loaded, you could end up with a bore obstruction similar to what David mentions above. I've never seen one of these barrels first hand, but they appear to have a threaded breech plug. (?) If so, it would be interesting to remove the breech plug in one of these barrels to see if that's the case. A barrel that had been burst would be a good opportunity to try this. Meantime, a small piece of wire through the vent hole and measuring that length (less the barrel wall thickness) and comparing it to the bore size at the muzzle end might give you an idea. Just a thought.
Rick.

[Pukka Bundook]

Good morning Rick,

I believe Ibrahiim has shown pictures of some of these blown and shortened barrels, and the rear part has been turned into a short barrel of maybe 15 inches in length.
I think what Ibrahiim means by the first joint, is where the first ribbon of steel, (or the first tube, depending on how the barrel was constructed) is joined to the second barrel section.
This old manner of making barrels was often used in Spain, and was a very sound practice....they rarely blew apart in proof or afterwards.
The tubes were overlapped, and forge -welded in place.

If Ibrahiim could confirm this, it would help us see through this murky subject much better!
Re. breech-plugs;
In Manouchehr's very good articles on Persian arms in Classic Firearms, he says that in Persia, the screwed in breech-plug was not trusted, and that they much preferred a soldered(!) in plug, or one forge-welded in place.
I believe he also said that Western barrel imported into Persia, often had the threaded plug removed and one welded in instead. I think this will mean thet even though these Persian barrels have tangs, they will not normally be threaded in place.

Best wishes,
Richard.