Corsairs

M ELEY · 9th August 2015, 09:04 PM

With extremely rare exceptions, I agree with you, Alan, about piracy. I met a man my age (nearly 50) who was a Cambodian refuge in a camp with his mother and 4 siblings. He told me a horrific story of a man who came from upriver to the camp distraught and in anguish. He and his wife had been attacked by river pirates, who stole all of their belongings, abused his spouse and killed her in front of him. The man later took his own life in front of many in the camp. Seeing the pain on my friend's face, knowing what he saw (the man killing himself) at such a young age was devastating.

In my new novel, I do try to be fair, showing pirates for the low lives and treasure seekers that they were. However, many privateers and sailors serving their nation were sometimes accused of being plain old pirates for the sake of defaming their character (John Paul Jones, Sir Walter Raleigh, etc). Likewise, having read about the Caine mutiny, the harsh lives of sailors and the unfairness of the times, can one really wonder why 'going on the account' was so appealing?

A. G. Maisey · 9th August 2015, 11:49 PM

I know very little about pirates Mark, but I've probably gained a little bit of general knowledge about them from occasional reading, film documentaries, and of course my first hand contact with the family in Jawa that I mentioned.

Your Cambodian story fits well with what I was told of the way that SE Asian pirates operate. The people I spoke with used small boats to get close to bigger boats at night, they would get one man on board, he'd lower a rope or rope ladder and the others would get on board then they'd take over the ship and anybody who offered resistance was immediately killed. In fact what one of these men said to me was that anybody who looked dangerous was killed. If they got the right type of ship they'd sell the entire ship off for scrap.

What I've read of the old-time historic pirates tends to make me think of them as sea-born motor-bike gangs:- intensely democratic, capable a high degree of brutality, totally untrustworthy. But compared with the life of an ordinary seaman of the time, especially one pressed into service, maybe they had a somewhat better life and possibly better long-term prospects --- if they survived.

It is often very difficult to understand and evaluate the ways and standards of people from a different time and place.

Rick · 10th August 2015, 12:07 AM

A friend of mine's Uncle was a M.M. Skipper; whenever they entered the S.China Sea 35 years ago or more they rigged huge hoses pumping high pressure seawater over the sides to discourage S.C.S. pirates from trying to board .

A. G. Maisey · 10th August 2015, 12:46 AM

Yeah, that's what they showed in Captain Phillips.

These bandits up north of and around Jawa don't just take big ships, they also love the the little privately owned sail boats that people cruise around the islands on. Been a number of Australians who have fallen victim one way or another.

One ludicrous thing that I half remember from a few years back involved an Australian boat being seized by Indonesian police and ordered into port for being in Indonesian waters and having undeclared/unregistered/prohibited firearms on board. The Aussies finished up in jail, eventually got out.

Who in their right mind would sail a 30 or 40 footer around that part of the world without an AK47 on board?

Rick · 10th August 2015, 01:59 AM

Now, I could tell you a story about a neighbor of mine took an M60 and a couple of LAW's on his sailboat through there right after the V.N. war
on his way to H.K.
South China Sea; badass neighborhood .
Different set of morals out there for the last thousand years at least .

A. G. Maisey · 10th August 2015, 04:14 AM

Different set of moral standards in lots of places Rick, not just SCS.

fernando · 10th August 2015, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

A friend of mine's Uncle was a M.M. Skipper; whenever they entered the S.China Sea 35 years ago or more they rigged huge hoses pumping high pressure seawater over the sides to discourage S.C.S. pirates from trying to board .

... Wasn't that resource installed in Captain Phillips ship? He did activate it, but they didn't care, though.

A. G. Maisey · 10th August 2015, 01:41 PM

Yes Fernando --- water hoses, and right --- the bad guys went straight through them.

VANDOO · 11th August 2015, 05:09 AM

SEVERAL YEARS BACK THERE WAS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN FLORIDA OF DRUG SMUGGLERS TAKEING OVER PRIVATELY OWNED SAILBOATS AND KILLING WHOEVER WAS ON BOARD AND THEN USING THE BOATS TO SMUGGLE IN DRUGS. DURING THE SAME TIME LOTS OF OLD DC3 AIRCRAFT SHOWED UP ABANDONED ALL OVER FLORIDA. THEY WOULD JUST LEAVE THE AIRCRAFT AS ONE GOOD RUN WOULD EASILY PUT PLENTY OF MONEY IN THE BANK TO BUY MORE DRUGS AND CHEAP AIRPLANES LATER. THE SAILBOATS WERE SOMETIMES ABANDONED BUT OFTEN MIGHT MAKE MORE THAN ONE RUN AS THE SHIPS PAPERS WERE HARD TO GET LEGALLY SO OF MORE USE FOR BOATS WITH LESS CHANCE OF GETTING CAUGHT.
DURING THAT TIME ONE GROUP OF MERCENARIES APPLIED TO THE U.S. GOVERNMENT FOR LETTERS OF MARQUE TO ARM UP AND HUNT THE DRUG PIRATES AND KEEP THE MONEY, LOOT AND SHIPS, THEY WERE DENIED. THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE 1970'S THRU 1980'S BUT MAY STILL HAPPEN BUT WITH THE BORDERS WIDE OPEN A LARGE TRUCK IS QUICKER AND WORKS FINE.

JamesKelly · 15th August 2015, 02:50 AM

Rather detailed accounts of 17th century pirates are given in The History of the Bucaniers of America London, MDCCLXXIV In Two Volumes, The Fifth Edition, London, MDCCLXXIV

I believe it is available on Google books. In Ancient Times I bought the two volumes rebound for US 10 cents, from the Lehigh University library.

These days Captain Morgan is a jolly fellow who sells rum in American TV commercials.
The original, circa 1670's, was not so cordial ". . . prisoners. These being brought into the city, were put to the most exquisite tortures . . . they put him on the rack, and inhumanly disjointed his arms; then they twisted a cord about his forehead, which they wrung so hard, that his eyes appeared as big as eggs . . . they hung him up by the testicles, giving him many blows . . . they cut of his nose and ears, and singed his face with burning straw . . ."

9th August 2015, 09:04 PM	#1
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,184	With extremely rare exceptions, I agree with you, Alan, about piracy. I met a man my age (nearly 50) who was a Cambodian refuge in a camp with his mother and 4 siblings. He told me a horrific story of a man who came from upriver to the camp distraught and in anguish. He and his wife had been attacked by river pirates, who stole all of their belongings, abused his spouse and killed her in front of him. The man later took his own life in front of many in the camp. Seeing the pain on my friend's face, knowing what he saw (the man killing himself) at such a young age was devastating. In my new novel, I do try to be fair, showing pirates for the low lives and treasure seekers that they were. However, many privateers and sailors serving their nation were sometimes accused of being plain old pirates for the sake of defaming their character (John Paul Jones, Sir Walter Raleigh, etc). Likewise, having read about the Caine mutiny, the harsh lives of sailors and the unfairness of the times, can one really wonder why 'going on the account' was so appealing?

9th August 2015, 11:49 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,047	I know very little about pirates Mark, but I've probably gained a little bit of general knowledge about them from occasional reading, film documentaries, and of course my first hand contact with the family in Jawa that I mentioned. Your Cambodian story fits well with what I was told of the way that SE Asian pirates operate. The people I spoke with used small boats to get close to bigger boats at night, they would get one man on board, he'd lower a rope or rope ladder and the others would get on board then they'd take over the ship and anybody who offered resistance was immediately killed. In fact what one of these men said to me was that anybody who looked dangerous was killed. If they got the right type of ship they'd sell the entire ship off for scrap. What I've read of the old-time historic pirates tends to make me think of them as sea-born motor-bike gangs:- intensely democratic, capable a high degree of brutality, totally untrustworthy. But compared with the life of an ordinary seaman of the time, especially one pressed into service, maybe they had a somewhat better life and possibly better long-term prospects --- if they survived. It is often very difficult to understand and evaluate the ways and standards of people from a different time and place.

10th August 2015, 12:07 AM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	A friend of mine's Uncle was a M.M. Skipper; whenever they entered the S.China Sea 35 years ago or more they rigged huge hoses pumping high pressure seawater over the sides to discourage S.C.S. pirates from trying to board .

10th August 2015, 12:46 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,047	Yeah, that's what they showed in Captain Phillips. These bandits up north of and around Jawa don't just take big ships, they also love the the little privately owned sail boats that people cruise around the islands on. Been a number of Australians who have fallen victim one way or another. One ludicrous thing that I half remember from a few years back involved an Australian boat being seized by Indonesian police and ordered into port for being in Indonesian waters and having undeclared/unregistered/prohibited firearms on board. The Aussies finished up in jail, eventually got out. Who in their right mind would sail a 30 or 40 footer around that part of the world without an AK47 on board?

10th August 2015, 01:59 AM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	Now, I could tell you a story about a neighbor of mine took an M60 and a couple of LAW's on his sailboat through there right after the V.N. war on his way to H.K. South China Sea; badass neighborhood . Different set of morals out there for the last thousand years at least .

10th August 2015, 04:14 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,047	Different set of moral standards in lots of places Rick, not just SCS.

10th August 2015, 01:41 PM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,047	Yes Fernando --- water hoses, and right --- the bad guys went straight through them.

11th August 2015, 05:09 AM	#9
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	SEVERAL YEARS BACK THERE WAS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN FLORIDA OF DRUG SMUGGLERS TAKEING OVER PRIVATELY OWNED SAILBOATS AND KILLING WHOEVER WAS ON BOARD AND THEN USING THE BOATS TO SMUGGLE IN DRUGS. DURING THE SAME TIME LOTS OF OLD DC3 AIRCRAFT SHOWED UP ABANDONED ALL OVER FLORIDA. THEY WOULD JUST LEAVE THE AIRCRAFT AS ONE GOOD RUN WOULD EASILY PUT PLENTY OF MONEY IN THE BANK TO BUY MORE DRUGS AND CHEAP AIRPLANES LATER. THE SAILBOATS WERE SOMETIMES ABANDONED BUT OFTEN MIGHT MAKE MORE THAN ONE RUN AS THE SHIPS PAPERS WERE HARD TO GET LEGALLY SO OF MORE USE FOR BOATS WITH LESS CHANCE OF GETTING CAUGHT. DURING THAT TIME ONE GROUP OF MERCENARIES APPLIED TO THE U.S. GOVERNMENT FOR LETTERS OF MARQUE TO ARM UP AND HUNT THE DRUG PIRATES AND KEEP THE MONEY, LOOT AND SHIPS, THEY WERE DENIED. THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE 1970'S THRU 1980'S BUT MAY STILL HAPPEN BUT WITH THE BORDERS WIDE OPEN A LARGE TRUCK IS QUICKER AND WORKS FINE.

15th August 2015, 02:50 AM	#10
JamesKelly Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Michigan, U.S.A. Posts: 108	Rather detailed accounts of 17th century pirates are given in The History of the Bucaniers of America London, MDCCLXXIV In Two Volumes, The Fifth Edition, London, MDCCLXXIV I believe it is available on Google books. In Ancient Times I bought the two volumes rebound for US 10 cents, from the Lehigh University library. These days Captain Morgan is a jolly fellow who sells rum in American TV commercials. The original, circa 1670's, was not so cordial ". . . prisoners. These being brought into the city, were put to the most exquisite tortures . . . they put him on the rack, and inhumanly disjointed his arms; then they twisted a cord about his forehead, which they wrung so hard, that his eyes appeared as big as eggs . . . they hung him up by the testicles, giving him many blows . . . they cut of his nose and ears, and singed his face with burning straw . . ."