Odd Sword

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 31st July 2015, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

I know the owner of this sword, he have sent me photos before and not much was found in the inscription by people whom I asked to examine. Will ask him again for clearer photos if he still owns it. Although there is nothing unusual about it, its part of a well established sword type that mainly has trade blades and Omani mounts.

Nothing unusual about it? I think it is extremely unusual. The tang extension, the blade, the pommel decoration, the blade marks. In fact it is the most unusual sword I have ever seen. I doubt you know the owner but... my suspicion is that this has been sourced out of the situation in Mutrah. The claim was that this was purchased in Yemen. It may well have been and in addition it may have been altered in Mutrah. It looks Portuguese.

There are trade blades from 1970 in the world sword system which were instigated through Mutrah from Ethiopia via Sanaa...til today ~ This could be from the same source.

The straight Omani dancing bladed sword or Sayf(Saif) (not to be confused with the Old Omani Battle Sword we are discussing here) which was inspired by Said the Great in the early part of the 19th Century is essentially hugely flexible and homegrown so far as I can see; purely in Oman. It is a dancing sword/and to hail the ruler/pageantry item/sword only. Many thousand straight blades have been through the hands of the Mutrah workshops in the past 45 years and have totally confused and conned most of the international sword collectors serious and incidental... Said the Great of old would probably be laughing about that...as we do here in Oman now.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

A.alnakkas · 31st July 2015, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Nothing unusual about it? I think it is extremely unusual. The tang extension, the blade, the pommel decoration, the blade marks. In fact it is the most unusual sword I have ever seen. I doubt you know the owner but... my suspicion is that this has been sourced out of the situation in Mutrah. The claim was that this was purchased in Yemen. It may well have been and in addition it may have been altered in Mutrah. It looks Portuguese.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

The tang extension is an existing method for rehilting blades. The inscriptions exist on European blades which also exist in the region which part of is Oman. The sword is in the UAE as far as I know, it belongs to a prominent collection and you posted before the screenshots from the owner's instagram account. Unless sold to Oman recently. :-)

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 31st July 2015, 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

The tang extension is an existing method for rehilting blades. The inscriptions exist on European blades which also exist in the region which part of is Oman. The sword is in the UAE as far as I know, it belongs to a prominent collection and you posted before the screenshots from the owner's instagram account. Unless sold to Oman recently. :-)

Correct about the rehilting proceedure in the specific part of Mutrah I am indicating...but you miss an important issue...These swords only began to enter the market in 1970. Before that there was no such trade. ...These Ethiopian blades have been filtered into the Mutrah SOUK/purchased from Sanaa ...rehilted to look Omani...though some have been sold on as is...and banged out to unsuspecting tourists and collectors alike.

I have one which has a very flexible blade ...equally as bendy as an Omani blade but its inscribed from hilt to tip in Ethiopian script...You are well aware that Mutrah is playing this game ... so is Forum ... Here Maude "Theres a sword ere he says is his uncles and its 1000 years old...Yes Dear he takes Visa !!...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 31st July 2015, 05:07 AM

Thanks to those who have had a go at the script so far....For anyone looking at the script it appears as A 5 1 U U A The initial and final letters are the same and seem to be in A form or rather as crown shapes. The inverted G or 5 without its top...has a meaning and a number in Hebrew ...see previous post # 29...As has the 1 and the U U and finally another A.

I suspect Hebrew as the Latin and Cyrillic do not correspond....anyone understand Hebrew please?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

A.alnakkas · 31st July 2015, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Correct about the rehilting proceedure in the specific part of Mutrah I am indicating...but you miss an important issue...These swords only began to enter the market in 1970. Before that there was no such trade. ...These Ethiopian blades have been filtered into the Mutrah SOUK/purchased from Sanaa ...rehilted to look Omani...though some have been sold on as is...and banged out to unsuspecting tourists and collectors alike.

I have one which has a very flexible blade ...equally as bendy as an Omani blade but its inscribed from hilt to tip in Ethiopian script...You are well aware that Mutrah is playing this game ... so is Forum ... Here Maude "Theres a sword ere he says is his uncles and its 1000 years old...Yes Dear he takes Visa !!...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Well aware of your hypothesis. Sadly you provided zero conclusive proof to make it even half believable.

And this is not an Ethiopian blade as Ethiopia mainly imported blades. The Ethiopians do not round the tip, but I guess you'll claim that is a Mutrah edition? makes no sense but if you insist, keep on believing that :-) anyways, will post some clearer photos from the owner's page. Atleast some reference is due.

A.alnakkas · 31st July 2015, 05:21 AM

Hope these are clear enough.

A.alnakkas · 31st July 2015, 05:31 AM

Also belonging to the same owner. He sent me these photos in February where I and Iain tried along with others to decipher the script.

Although this iron hilted sword has new dress (silver hilt covering) the iron hilt is still shown especially the quillons and the dome shaped pommel. Also since this is a 'battle' sword (also worn in ceremonial purposes by the Omani sultan himself - not this particular example but a famous photo of young Sultan Qaboos shows him wielding a similar sword gold fitted) has a European blade similar in some ways to the sword published before. Proving how well the practice of using European blades dates far in time. But I suppose this is also a Mutrah fake made in the surprisingly precise date of 1970.

(I await how the iron hilt will be ignored and the obviously modern edition used as some 'evidence' that this sword is new)

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 31st July 2015, 05:51 AM

Thank you for the excellent pictures ... I had not seen these before...nor do I have permission to show the owner details so ...You may have but he otherwise may not like it...Consider removing his photo please. Oh and I am aware of the way blades entered and exited the Ethiopian region..yes! from Europe thence to Sanaa in Yemen and since 1970 to Muscat/Mutrah and Salalah. Mutrah are quite capable of making round square or any other shapes at the swords tip...They have a workshops expert at that sort of engineering.

On a point of order ...did I ever say that Omani Battle Swords never had other blades?...I certainly believe Omani dancing sword blades were all home grown...but the Sayf Yamaani...? I dont think I have insisted upon that accreditation ...I will check my thread...and having done so No I have never said that because firstly; I have never before seen a European blade fitted to the Sayf Yamaani hilt . Secondly; I have still not pinpointed the origin of manufacture if in fact there is one place.. Perhaps it is in the Yemen? Hadramaut? Thus Sayf Yamaani...or is that just the name? It may have been made in a number of places some of which may be in Oman like Nizwa?? Certainly the original wing shaped cross section style appears to be its birthright...and copied therafter. There is supposed to be a Portuguese bladed weapon on a Sayf Yamaani rig in a museum in Muscat but Mutrah sold them that...they say... so.... I have never seen a European blade on a Sayf Yamaani until today though that is hugely suspect since that one you show, I believe, is from Mutrah in the early days around 1970.

You show a most interesting blade face with the letters SVARES on it... I dont have any idea what that is but clearly it appears to be of European make...Solingen? at a guess. It is not an Arabian weapon but looks Portuguese? thus its origin / where it was obtained I know not... perhaps you can fill in the blanks?

What is interesting is the peculiar play on the other face of the pommel which implies in my view a talismanic aspect ...Have you any idea what that may be?

The other inscription ...Is that on the reverse of the SVARES blade? ... It looks Latin.

The other sword is an Omani Old Battle Sword or Sayf Yamaani with a strange hilt made in an attempt to qualify it as a Royal Omani Hilt but with an unusual silver woven overgrip and a non Omani blade. This also looks European possibly German/Portuguese as well.

The origin of species of the Sayf Yamaani sword goes back 1000 years and more... I may be guilty of over defending that form though as I say there is no proof that other blades somehow became inserted except as I have indicated since 1970...by the Mutrah people.

The one you show is a complete rejigged hilt, hilt cover, blade and all including fine work in the scabbard etc ...Its a pity really since the blade is exceptional, old and European. Its a Mutrah Special!!

The Sayf Yamaani sword you mention belonging to the Ruler indeed has gold mounts and may be seen at my thread on this weapon http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=sayf+yamaani at #69.

Conclusion ~ It may now be shown that in conclusion;

1. The destination/rejigging of the sword at #1 was probably to be as a lookalike Omani dancing sword with extended tang on an European blade however purchased before that work was completed..Pure Mutrah done recently~ Fake.

2. By reverse engineering the sword that looks like an Omani Battle Sword; it can be seen as a European blade refitted with a spare Omani Battle Sword Hilt and Pommel, Grip in Woven Silver and accompanying Scabbard in the Omani Style. Pure Mutrah. 1970 or later ~ Fake.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

31st July 2015, 05:31 AM	#7
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Also belonging to the same owner. He sent me these photos in February where I and Iain tried along with others to decipher the script. Although this iron hilted sword has new dress (silver hilt covering) the iron hilt is still shown especially the quillons and the dome shaped pommel. Also since this is a 'battle' sword (also worn in ceremonial purposes by the Omani sultan himself - not this particular example but a famous photo of young Sultan Qaboos shows him wielding a similar sword gold fitted) has a European blade similar in some ways to the sword published before. Proving how well the practice of using European blades dates far in time. But I suppose this is also a Mutrah fake made in the surprisingly precise date of 1970. (I await how the iron hilt will be ignored and the obviously modern edition used as some 'evidence' that this sword is new) Attached Images

31st July 2015, 05:51 AM	#8
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Never lose track of the fact that Mutrah is a hotbed of faked swords ! Thank you for the excellent pictures ... I had not seen these before...nor do I have permission to show the owner details so ...You may have but he otherwise may not like it...Consider removing his photo please. Oh and I am aware of the way blades entered and exited the Ethiopian region..yes! from Europe thence to Sanaa in Yemen and since 1970 to Muscat/Mutrah and Salalah. Mutrah are quite capable of making round square or any other shapes at the swords tip...They have a workshops expert at that sort of engineering. On a point of order ...did I ever say that Omani Battle Swords never had other blades?...I certainly believe Omani dancing sword blades were all home grown...but the Sayf Yamaani...? I dont think I have insisted upon that accreditation ...I will check my thread...and having done so No I have never said that because firstly; I have never before seen a European blade fitted to the Sayf Yamaani hilt . Secondly; I have still not pinpointed the origin of manufacture if in fact there is one place.. Perhaps it is in the Yemen? Hadramaut? Thus Sayf Yamaani...or is that just the name? It may have been made in a number of places some of which may be in Oman like Nizwa?? Certainly the original wing shaped cross section style appears to be its birthright...and copied therafter. There is supposed to be a Portuguese bladed weapon on a Sayf Yamaani rig in a museum in Muscat but Mutrah sold them that...they say... so.... I have never seen a European blade on a Sayf Yamaani until today though that is hugely suspect since that one you show, I believe, is from Mutrah in the early days around 1970. You show a most interesting blade face with the letters SVARES on it... I dont have any idea what that is but clearly it appears to be of European make...Solingen? at a guess. It is not an Arabian weapon but looks Portuguese? thus its origin / where it was obtained I know not... perhaps you can fill in the blanks? What is interesting is the peculiar play on the other face of the pommel which implies in my view a talismanic aspect ...Have you any idea what that may be? The other inscription ...Is that on the reverse of the SVARES blade? ... It looks Latin. The other sword is an Omani Old Battle Sword or Sayf Yamaani with a strange hilt made in an attempt to qualify it as a Royal Omani Hilt but with an unusual silver woven overgrip and a non Omani blade. This also looks European possibly German/Portuguese as well. The origin of species of the Sayf Yamaani sword goes back 1000 years and more... I may be guilty of over defending that form though as I say there is no proof that other blades somehow became inserted except as I have indicated since 1970...by the Mutrah people. The one you show is a complete rejigged hilt, hilt cover, blade and all including fine work in the scabbard etc ...Its a pity really since the blade is exceptional, old and European. Its a Mutrah Special!! The Sayf Yamaani sword you mention belonging to the Ruler indeed has gold mounts and may be seen at my thread on this weapon http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=sayf+yamaani at #69. Conclusion ~ It may now be shown that in conclusion; 1. The destination/rejigging of the sword at #1 was probably to be as a lookalike Omani dancing sword with extended tang on an European blade however purchased before that work was completed..Pure Mutrah done recently~ Fake. 2. By reverse engineering the sword that looks like an Omani Battle Sword; it can be seen as a European blade refitted with a spare Omani Battle Sword Hilt and Pommel, Grip in Woven Silver and accompanying Scabbard in the Omani Style. Pure Mutrah. 1970 or later ~ Fake. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 31st July 2015 at 02:05 PM.

31st July 2015, 05:07 AM	#4
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Thanks to those who have had a go at the script so far....For anyone looking at the script it appears as A 5 1 U U A The initial and final letters are the same and seem to be in A form or rather as crown shapes. The inverted G or 5 without its top...has a meaning and a number in Hebrew ...see previous post # 29...As has the 1 and the U U and finally another A. I suspect Hebrew as the Latin and Cyrillic do not correspond....anyone understand Hebrew please? Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

31st July 2015, 05:21 AM	#6
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Hope these are clear enough. Attached Images