Strange club? solomon? samoa? amazon?

Tim Simmons · 29th July 2015, 08:56 PM

I am going for South America. I can only see a dagger of Amerindian form. It just does not look like a miniature supi club.

fireiceviper · 31st July 2015, 12:28 PM

Update:

A couple of people in the Facebook group about tribal weapons noticed that the paterns on the club are similar too the ones used on Santa Cruz island (solomon group).

And i agree! As for a function still no clue, too small for a normal dance paddle from that region ... could be one for children

i've included some examples of the tapa and a pdf (sorry pdf to big i made it a link ) with some more information.

PDF

Tim Simmons · 31st July 2015, 01:41 PM

Just when I was about to change my mind and agree with you. I thought perhaps one could see design similarities with this South American {Guyana} club. The shape is kind of related just the round pommel hints at the Solomons.

VANDOO · 31st July 2015, 06:15 PM

THERE ARE SIMILAR FORMS AND DESIGNS AROUND THE WORLD IN CLUBS AND EVERYTHING ELSE. BE CAREFUL TRYING TO MAKE SOMETHING INTO WHAT YOU WANT IT TO BE AND BREAK NEW GROUND AND MAKE A NEW DISCOVERY.

I THINK THIS DISCUSSION HAS MUDDIED THE WATERS AS TO WHAT WE HAVE AND WHERE ITS COME FROM. MY PERSONAL OBSERVATION IS THIS FORM OF CLUB /DAGGER IS FOUND THRU-OUT OCEANIA AND OFTEN HAS VARIOUS DESIGNS ON THE HEAD.
IN SOUTH AMERICA THE STABBING WEAPONS GENERALLY TEND TO BE MORE KNIFE LIKE OR LIKE A SHORT SPEAR AND DON'T TEND TO INCORPORATE THE FUNCTION OF A CLUB. IT COULD BE SOUTH AMERICAN BUT THE ODDS FAVOR SOUTH PACIFIC ORIGINS ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING THERE SEEMS TO BE A LOT MORE FROM THAT REGION CIRCA WW2 ON THE MARKET THAN FROM SOUTH AMERICA. BUT WHAT DO I KNOW

CARRY ON.

THE REASON I DARE TO BRING THIS UP IS THERE ARE FEW REFERENCES I AM AWARE OF ON SOUTH AMERICAN CLUBS AND WHEN SOMEONE DOES WRITE ONE WE DON'T WANT WRONG INFORMATION HERE AS IT MIGHT BE PASSED ON IN THE BOOK PERPETUATING ANY MISTAKES WE MAKE HERE. THAT IS WHY I OFTEN WARN OF CONJECTURE OR SAY "IDENTIFIED AS" IN SOME OF MY POSTS.

fireiceviper · 31st July 2015, 07:43 PM

As much as i would like this club to be from south america (that would make it more real probably), i just can't see it anymore.

Santa Cruz islands have some dance wands with similar patterns and the black inlay see http://www.faganarms.com/collections...rm-club-94-257 for instance (ignore form but look at the inlay!)

i've ordered a book about he material culture of the Santa Cruz islands (in german o joy!) that i hope will shed some light on the form.

But i'm suspecting a ww2 souvenir from that area...that would make it a tourist piece...and would make me less happy

but the truth is the truth no matter how bad you want it to be something else.

31st July 2015, 12:28 PM	#2
fireiceviper Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 87	Update: A couple of people in the Facebook group about tribal weapons noticed that the paterns on the club are similar too the ones used on Santa Cruz island (solomon group). And i agree! As for a function still no clue, too small for a normal dance paddle from that region ... could be one for children i've included some examples of the tapa and a pdf (sorry pdf to big i made it a link ) with some more information. PDF Attached Images

31st July 2015, 01:41 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	Just when I was about to change my mind and agree with you. I thought perhaps one could see design similarities with this South American {Guyana} club. The shape is kind of related just the round pommel hints at the Solomons. Attached Images

31st July 2015, 06:15 PM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THERE ARE SIMILAR FORMS AND DESIGNS AROUND THE WORLD IN CLUBS AND EVERYTHING ELSE. BE CAREFUL TRYING TO MAKE SOMETHING INTO WHAT YOU WANT IT TO BE AND BREAK NEW GROUND AND MAKE A NEW DISCOVERY. I THINK THIS DISCUSSION HAS MUDDIED THE WATERS AS TO WHAT WE HAVE AND WHERE ITS COME FROM. MY PERSONAL OBSERVATION IS THIS FORM OF CLUB /DAGGER IS FOUND THRU-OUT OCEANIA AND OFTEN HAS VARIOUS DESIGNS ON THE HEAD. IN SOUTH AMERICA THE STABBING WEAPONS GENERALLY TEND TO BE MORE KNIFE LIKE OR LIKE A SHORT SPEAR AND DON'T TEND TO INCORPORATE THE FUNCTION OF A CLUB. IT COULD BE SOUTH AMERICAN BUT THE ODDS FAVOR SOUTH PACIFIC ORIGINS ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING THERE SEEMS TO BE A LOT MORE FROM THAT REGION CIRCA WW2 ON THE MARKET THAN FROM SOUTH AMERICA. BUT WHAT DO I KNOW CARRY ON. THE REASON I DARE TO BRING THIS UP IS THERE ARE FEW REFERENCES I AM AWARE OF ON SOUTH AMERICAN CLUBS AND WHEN SOMEONE DOES WRITE ONE WE DON'T WANT WRONG INFORMATION HERE AS IT MIGHT BE PASSED ON IN THE BOOK PERPETUATING ANY MISTAKES WE MAKE HERE. THAT IS WHY I OFTEN WARN OF CONJECTURE OR SAY "IDENTIFIED AS" IN SOME OF MY POSTS. Last edited by VANDOO; 31st July 2015 at 07:09 PM.

29th July 2015, 08:56 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	I am going for South America. I can only see a dagger of Amerindian form. It just does not look like a miniature supi club.

31st July 2015, 07:43 PM	#5
fireiceviper Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 87	As much as i would like this club to be from south america (that would make it more real probably), i just can't see it anymore. Santa Cruz islands have some dance wands with similar patterns and the black inlay see http://www.faganarms.com/collections...rm-club-94-257 for instance (ignore form but look at the inlay!) i've ordered a book about he material culture of the Santa Cruz islands (in german o joy!) that i hope will shed some light on the form. But i'm suspecting a ww2 souvenir from that area...that would make it a tourist piece...and would make me less happy but the truth is the truth no matter how bad you want it to be something else.