Mysore Dagger Inscription Help

Radu Transylvanicus · 9th January 2005, 09:56 AM

Knock ... knock ... Rivkin, Ariel, JensNorlunde, Shapsegh , BI, erlikhan , eftihis . c`mon , step up to the plate with the translation ...

B.I · 9th January 2005, 09:21 PM

i've been in touch with mare rosu privately but thought to offer some of the information here as well.
this dagger is indeed from the mysore armoury and the inscription is kannada script. i cannot give a precise translation, but this was a series of inscriptions, all almost identical and without a doubt inscribed at the same time. in the early 1990s, a load of them were translated. all held the words 'sri krishna' which refers to Krishnaraja Wadiyar 3rd of mysore. then follows a series of inventory numbers and a short description of the piece (eg hidden dagger, big dagger etc). the pieces in the present mysore armoury show this inscription, as do the pieces that left there just over 10 years ago.
the maharaja decided to sell a quantity of weapons from the armoury (i believe they were owned by the state, and not himself). these weapons were transported from mysore to dehli, where they were held by an arms dealer. the collection consisted of around 700 pieces, 300 of which were bought by an english dealer and transported to england. the whole collection was then sold to an australian businessman/collector and then, for some unknown reason, bought back a short while late by the same englishman. a small quantity remained in australia, whilst the rest (bar a few pieces) went into auction. before the auction, the pieces were translated. an indirect source told me the translations were done at SOAS but can only speculate this. either way, the pieces sold at auction and dispersed. last year, the remaining australian pieces were sold into auction, and this dagger was part of the sale. i kno wthis information, as i researched it a while ago, when i bought a piece from the same collection, with an almost identical inscription.
attributions to a british museum are rubbish, and any tipu affiliation is purely speculative. we can confirm its palce at mysore, and its attribution to Krishnaraja Wadiyar 3rd. before that is lost in history. (note, the pieces going to englnd first and then australia came from a pretty direct source. another version told was that some went from dehli to england and some from dehli to australia)
an interesting note, that mare rosu bought the piece in england, which meant the dagger went - mysore>dehli>england>australia>england>southern america.
a definately well travelled piece.

B.I · 30th July 2006, 09:51 PM

hi gene,
ahem, a year and a half later!!
one of the words is unknown. is there any part of the word that is not shown in the image? maybe it is short for the english word 'number' but it wasnt common for kannada to incorporate english words. but, if it was wodeyar 3rd it is refering to (popularly agreed theory) then he was placed on the throne under the british rule, so maybe it is. other inscriptions have included a descriptive term of the piece itself, so maybe it was poorly written and means something else.
no translation should be taken literally, and 2 independant (or better 3!) opinions should always be used to get an overall average.
my translater is not a linguist, but a art historian whose mother tongue is kannada. maybe someone that studies old texts, and used to its differences could help more.

Mare Rosu · 30th July 2006, 11:13 PM

Well now MR. B.I. What a pleasant surprise!

I do appreciate you efforts. The way you displayed the information is just outstanding. I had just about given up on the inscription/translation.
Dr. Ann is also working on the dagger as well as the inscription and what she comes up with I will post it here with her permission.
Now on a personal note is there anything you do not know? I am of course referring to the original writeup/information on the dagger and now you come up with the translation, truly amazing detective work on your part. You know more about my stuff than I do! and also more than the seller( to me ) of the dagger

.
I again offer my services to you at anytime (wash your car, sweep your floors ). You sir have made my day.

Gene

B.I · 31st July 2006, 10:17 AM

shucks, i'm blushing

if i ever find myself driving past the deep south i may take you up on the car wash, but keep your sponge dry as its a long way from london!
my friend is here for a very short time. the word i have labelled as 'NUM?' confused him as it didnt make sense. could you have a close look at the blade and see if there is part of it missing, that doesnt show up in the image.
sometimes blades are cleaned around the inscription, and re-etched and so the edges of the lettering fade away.
always worth a go.

Mare Rosu · 31st July 2006, 06:45 PM

OK B.I.
Latest pictures of the Dagger I call Mysore.
Dr. Ann supplied them and hope you can use them.
Now stop reading this and get to work!

Gene

Radu Transylvanicus · 31st July 2006, 07:51 PM

Wow, after a year and a half, huh ?

You gotta love persistence and this kind of tenacious spirit! Cant help it!

9th January 2005, 09:21 PM	#2
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	inscription i've been in touch with mare rosu privately but thought to offer some of the information here as well. this dagger is indeed from the mysore armoury and the inscription is kannada script. i cannot give a precise translation, but this was a series of inscriptions, all almost identical and without a doubt inscribed at the same time. in the early 1990s, a load of them were translated. all held the words 'sri krishna' which refers to Krishnaraja Wadiyar 3rd of mysore. then follows a series of inventory numbers and a short description of the piece (eg hidden dagger, big dagger etc). the pieces in the present mysore armoury show this inscription, as do the pieces that left there just over 10 years ago. the maharaja decided to sell a quantity of weapons from the armoury (i believe they were owned by the state, and not himself). these weapons were transported from mysore to dehli, where they were held by an arms dealer. the collection consisted of around 700 pieces, 300 of which were bought by an english dealer and transported to england. the whole collection was then sold to an australian businessman/collector and then, for some unknown reason, bought back a short while late by the same englishman. a small quantity remained in australia, whilst the rest (bar a few pieces) went into auction. before the auction, the pieces were translated. an indirect source told me the translations were done at SOAS but can only speculate this. either way, the pieces sold at auction and dispersed. last year, the remaining australian pieces were sold into auction, and this dagger was part of the sale. i kno wthis information, as i researched it a while ago, when i bought a piece from the same collection, with an almost identical inscription. attributions to a british museum are rubbish, and any tipu affiliation is purely speculative. we can confirm its palce at mysore, and its attribution to Krishnaraja Wadiyar 3rd. before that is lost in history. (note, the pieces going to englnd first and then australia came from a pretty direct source. another version told was that some went from dehli to england and some from dehli to australia) an interesting note, that mare rosu bought the piece in england, which meant the dagger went - mysore>dehli>england>australia>england>southern america. a definately well travelled piece.

30th July 2006, 09:51 PM	#3
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	hi gene, ahem, a year and a half later!! one of the words is unknown. is there any part of the word that is not shown in the image? maybe it is short for the english word 'number' but it wasnt common for kannada to incorporate english words. but, if it was wodeyar 3rd it is refering to (popularly agreed theory) then he was placed on the throne under the british rule, so maybe it is. other inscriptions have included a descriptive term of the piece itself, so maybe it was poorly written and means something else. no translation should be taken literally, and 2 independant (or better 3!) opinions should always be used to get an overall average. my translater is not a linguist, but a art historian whose mother tongue is kannada. maybe someone that studies old texts, and used to its differences could help more. Attached Images

30th July 2006, 11:13 PM	#4
Mare Rosu Deceased Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: USA, DEEP SOUTH, GEORGIA, Y'all hear? Posts: 121	B I to the rescue! Well now MR. B.I. What a pleasant surprise! I do appreciate you efforts. The way you displayed the information is just outstanding. I had just about given up on the inscription/translation. Dr. Ann is also working on the dagger as well as the inscription and what she comes up with I will post it here with her permission. Now on a personal note is there anything you do not know? I am of course referring to the original writeup/information on the dagger and now you come up with the translation, truly amazing detective work on your part. You know more about my stuff than I do! and also more than the seller( to me ) of the dagger . I again offer my services to you at anytime (wash your car, sweep your floors ). You sir have made my day. Gene

31st July 2006, 06:45 PM	#6
Mare Rosu Deceased Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: USA, DEEP SOUTH, GEORGIA, Y'all hear? Posts: 121	Mysore dagger picture updates OK B.I. Latest pictures of the Dagger I call Mysore. Dr. Ann supplied them and hope you can use them. Now stop reading this and get to work! Gene Attached Images

9th January 2005, 09:56 AM	#1
Radu Transylvanicus Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: 2008-2010 Bali, 1998-2008 USA Posts: 271	Knock ... knock ... Rivkin, Ariel, JensNorlunde, Shapsegh , BI, erlikhan , eftihis . c`mon , step up to the plate with the translation ...

31st July 2006, 10:17 AM	#5
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	shucks, i'm blushing if i ever find myself driving past the deep south i may take you up on the car wash, but keep your sponge dry as its a long way from london! my friend is here for a very short time. the word i have labelled as 'NUM?' confused him as it didnt make sense. could you have a close look at the blade and see if there is part of it missing, that doesnt show up in the image. sometimes blades are cleaned around the inscription, and re-etched and so the edges of the lettering fade away. always worth a go.

31st July 2006, 07:51 PM	#7
Radu Transylvanicus Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: 2008-2010 Bali, 1998-2008 USA Posts: 271	Wow, after a year and a half, huh ? You gotta love persistence and this kind of tenacious spirit! Cant help it!