Strange club? solomon? samoa? amazon?

VANDOO · 22nd July 2015, 02:32 PM

THESE SMALL CLUBS ARE DIFFICULT TO PIN DOWN AS TO LOCATION. WE GENERALLY TEND TO SAY SOLOMON ISLANDS FOR THESE BUT I SUSPECT THEY ARE WIDE SPREAD THRU-OUT THE SOUTH PACIFIC. THEY ARE DESIGNED FOR FIGHTING IN CLOSE AND FOR THRUSTING AS WELL AS STRIKING BLOWS. THE DESIGNS ARE UNUSUAL ON THIS EXAMPLE AND I THINK DO PLACE IT AROUND WW2 ERA WITH NON- TRIBAL, NON-TRADITIONAL DESIGNS. THESE DESIGNS MAY HAVE OUTSIDE INFLUENCES ESPECIALLY THE DESIGN SIMILAR TO THE GERMAN SYMBOL. A NICE AND UNUSUAL EXAMPLE OF THE FORM.

fireiceviper · 22nd July 2015, 08:21 PM

The Pommel and palm wood was what first made me think of the Solomon islands but the shape is so very different from the normal ones...even way after ww2... this is more cube shaped instead of flat/leaf/diamond/ shaped...

The black paint is still a mystery to me... i kind-of see the resemblance to the Nazi logo, but its not quite there... i mean a swastika is really easy to draw... almost impossible to not get right... so it really could mean something else..

Do you have a link to anything similar?

David · 22nd July 2015, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireiceviper

The black paint is still a mystery to me... i kind-of see the resemblance to the Nazi logo, but its not quite there... i mean a swastika is really easy to draw... almost impossible to not get right... so it really could mean something else..

The swastika is a very ancient symbol with a long history of positive application throughout the world, from India to the Americas. It is generally a symbol of solar power, whirling energies, the four directions, etc. and is a sign of good luck in many cultures. What is carved on this club is most definitely a swastika, though it is also NOT a Nazi swastika.

Tim Simmons · 22nd July 2015, 09:14 PM

This club looks a lot better than the many ww2 souvenir short supi Solomon Island club. Although not old looking it does seem to have a patina from frequent handling. Like you My first thoughts were the Solomons. However there is something Amazon about it too. I am finding the Amazon a great source for clubs and an area where forms are yet to be fully appreciated and catalogued. One of the main appeal for the right type of Amazon club is that they do not have to be old to be the " real thing " in a way that we as collectors understand. For the time being I still favour the Solomons. Perhaps daylight pictures might help? The pommel does not suggest Amazon to me.

Tim Simmons · 22nd July 2015, 09:21 PM

The more I look at it I am starting to see more Amazon than Solomons. I think a pictorial case could be made with comparable examples. I can post a few perhaps tomorrow.

fireiceviper · 23rd July 2015, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

The more I look at it I am starting to see more Amazon than Solomons. I think a pictorial case could be made with comparable examples. I can post a few perhaps tomorrow.

I know! its driving me crazy! unfortunately i don't have the item here so i can't take better pictures.

Also ignore all my comments about palm-wood...off-course they use it in the amazon ( i have some examples on my wall).. i was just being blind...

Gavin Nugent · 23rd July 2015, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

This club looks a lot better than the many ww2 souvenir short supi Solomon Island club. Although not old looking it does seem to have a patina from frequent handling. Like you My first thoughts were the Solomons. However there is something Amazon about it too. I am finding the Amazon a great source for clubs and an area where forms are yet to be fully appreciated and catalogued. One of the main appeal for the right type of Amazon club is that they do not have to be old to be the " real thing " in a way that we as collectors understand. For the time being I still favour the Solomons. Perhaps daylight pictures might help? The pommel does not suggest Amazon to me.

Tim & Barry

You guys have a very good handle on these types of weapons and very good reference points in literature and imagery...perhaps, and just a long shot, but is it worth comparing the weaving like motifs on the club in question to Solomon Island and South American examples which retain their original woven fibres? And perhaps the engraved tattoo deigns native to each and other regions too?

Just a thought?

Gavin

Tim Simmons · 23rd July 2015, 04:54 PM

Looking again, and realising that it is only 16 inches long. It seems to be more of a dagger. When it you think of a dagger you tend to think of a metal knife to cut and penetrate flesh and muscle but I think a wood dagger is more about blunt force trauma to the face, head and upper torso. I can see similar decorations on Solomon and Amazon weapons but I just have a feeling that this is Amazon. Reference is make to daggers here---

http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/vi...t=anthrotheses

Perhaps it is Guyanese?

fearn · 24th July 2015, 04:28 AM

I thought Amazon when I first saw it.

Then I misinterpreted it as a baby paddle club, which is quite common in the South Pacific, as Vandoo noted. They seem to be the equivalent of a short sword, if the paddle's a great sword.

Then I looked at it again, and realized it has more of a square cross section rather than a rhomoid (paddle). That swung me back to Amazonian again.

I guess that means I think Tim's right.

F

22nd July 2015, 02:32 PM	#1
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THESE SMALL CLUBS ARE DIFFICULT TO PIN DOWN AS TO LOCATION. WE GENERALLY TEND TO SAY SOLOMON ISLANDS FOR THESE BUT I SUSPECT THEY ARE WIDE SPREAD THRU-OUT THE SOUTH PACIFIC. THEY ARE DESIGNED FOR FIGHTING IN CLOSE AND FOR THRUSTING AS WELL AS STRIKING BLOWS. THE DESIGNS ARE UNUSUAL ON THIS EXAMPLE AND I THINK DO PLACE IT AROUND WW2 ERA WITH NON- TRIBAL, NON-TRADITIONAL DESIGNS. THESE DESIGNS MAY HAVE OUTSIDE INFLUENCES ESPECIALLY THE DESIGN SIMILAR TO THE GERMAN SYMBOL. A NICE AND UNUSUAL EXAMPLE OF THE FORM.

22nd July 2015, 08:21 PM	#2
fireiceviper Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 87	The Pommel and palm wood was what first made me think of the Solomon islands but the shape is so very different from the normal ones...even way after ww2... this is more cube shaped instead of flat/leaf/diamond/ shaped... The black paint is still a mystery to me... i kind-of see the resemblance to the Nazi logo, but its not quite there... i mean a swastika is really easy to draw... almost impossible to not get right... so it really could mean something else.. Do you have a link to anything similar?

22nd July 2015, 09:14 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	This club looks a lot better than the many ww2 souvenir short supi Solomon Island club. Although not old looking it does seem to have a patina from frequent handling. Like you My first thoughts were the Solomons. However there is something Amazon about it too. I am finding the Amazon a great source for clubs and an area where forms are yet to be fully appreciated and catalogued. One of the main appeal for the right type of Amazon club is that they do not have to be old to be the " real thing " in a way that we as collectors understand. For the time being I still favour the Solomons. Perhaps daylight pictures might help? The pommel does not suggest Amazon to me.

22nd July 2015, 09:21 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	The more I look at it I am starting to see more Amazon than Solomons. I think a pictorial case could be made with comparable examples. I can post a few perhaps tomorrow.

23rd July 2015, 04:54 PM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	Looking again, and realising that it is only 16 inches long. It seems to be more of a dagger. When it you think of a dagger you tend to think of a metal knife to cut and penetrate flesh and muscle but I think a wood dagger is more about blunt force trauma to the face, head and upper torso. I can see similar decorations on Solomon and Amazon weapons but I just have a feeling that this is Amazon. Reference is make to daggers here--- http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/vi...t=anthrotheses Perhaps it is Guyanese?

24th July 2015, 04:28 AM	#9
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	I thought Amazon when I first saw it. Then I misinterpreted it as a baby paddle club, which is quite common in the South Pacific, as Vandoo noted. They seem to be the equivalent of a short sword, if the paddle's a great sword. Then I looked at it again, and realized it has more of a square cross section rather than a rhomoid (paddle). That swung me back to Amazonian again. I guess that means I think Tim's right. F