|
|
|
19th July 2015, 07:11 AM
|
#1 |
|
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: adelaide south australia
Posts: 284
|
Scottish or English
Hi
Sadly their is not absolute way to be certain about the origin of many basket hilts by pommel alone. However, this is a good start. Generally the typical bun pommel will indicate an English sword etc. The trap is that swords get damaged over time and repaired locally and the blacksmith may not be to particular about which pommel they put back on a sword being repaired etc. I have found MAZANSKY (C.) BRITISH BASKET-HILTED SWORDS: A TYPOLOGY OF BASKET-TYPE SWORD HILTS a good help when it comes to referencing pommel types for age and nationality. Cheers Cathey and Rex |
|
|
|
20th July 2015, 02:38 AM
|
#2 |
|
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 61
|
Here's my next basket.
English, ca. 1620 32 1/2" de blade, with short central fuller. Excavated condition, but retains part of the grip and both brass wire Turk's head knots. The knucklebows are screwed to the pommel. Interestingly, this basket has the feature of a screw-on capstan. Most hilts of this basic pattern are dated in the late 1500s, but I date this one to the 1620s because of the total lack of the long quillions that characterize earlier examples. An interesting feature of this sword (and something that I didn't think to photograph!) is what looks like langets at the blade shoulder. However, what appears to be langets are actually a repair. This blade apparently broke right where the tang meets the shoulder. The repair was effected by making a tang that has ears protruding on either side of the blade. The blade was inserted between the ears and the whole welded back together. I'll be able to access my collection again in a few weeks, and will try to remember to photograph the repair. |
|
|
|
|
20th July 2015, 03:01 AM
|
#3 |
|
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 61
|
Another one.
English? Scottish? Probably dates 1680 - 1720 or so. 31 1/2" de blade with two narrow fullers extending about 8" down the blade. No stamps or inscriptions are present. Hilt of fairly typical form for the late 1600s with plain unpierced panels with some simple filed/engraved lines. The grip appears to be original. An interesting feature of this sword is that rivets have been used to reinforce the hammer welds (see last photo). However, there's also an additional hole by the blade, and what is this hole for??? Securing the liner? This is one of the lightest basket hilted swords I have seen. The hilt is composed of rather thin elements, and the weight of the sword is about 1.8 pounds. |
|
|
|
|
22nd July 2015, 11:54 PM
|
#4 | |
|
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,270
|
Quote:
Jose |
|
|
|
|
|
23rd July 2015, 03:44 AM
|
#5 |
|
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 61
|
The first of my Mortuary swords. This one may not even qualify as a basket or half basket (not enough protective bars making up the hilt), but since Mazansky covers Morts in his book, this sword is not inappropriate for this thread!
Mid 1600s in date, with a 32 3/4" de blade inscribed on one side "+ SOLIDEO +" and the other side "+ GLORIA +". What makes this sword of interest is that it has a thumbring, a feature not found commonly on English swords. The hilt decoration is composed of four grotesque faces, and foliage with some sparse piercings. The grip is one of my restorations, and the diagonal lines seen in places on the blade are artifacts of where some idiot in the past used an angle grinder on it. |
|
|
|
|
23rd July 2015, 04:03 AM
|
#6 |
|
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 61
|
English, early 1700s.
30" se straight blade with a single back fuller, stamped on both sides with a running fox and SH. This is apparently a grenadier's baskethilt of the 23rd Regiment: the Royal Welsh Fusileers. The grip is of embossed brass, each side with a crown, POW feathers, the motto "ICH DIEN", and a Hanoverian horse. Neumann shows this same grip design on an S hilted hanger (sword 26S), which is dated to about 1745. I think that the sword shown here is a pattern used ca 1700 by the 23rd. The blade is not shortened, and the fuller ends about 7" from the blade tip. Mazansky shows several hilts of this type in his book. |
|
|
|
|
23rd July 2015, 04:48 PM
|
#7 | |
|
Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE
Posts: 4,408
|
Quote:
Salaams E.B. Erickson The running fox with SH beautifully illustrated on the blades is of course from the Wood Street, Shotley Bridge Factory !! now refurbished as a fine house. What is not that well known is that the company also acquired the local Inn closeby... The Crown and Crossed Swords. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
24th July 2015, 06:03 PM
|
#8 |
|
Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE
Posts: 4,408
|
My deliberate mistake above... SH stands for the mark of Samuel Harvey....of which there were 3; Father Son and Grandson...all involved in sword manufacture based in Birmingham. Does anyone know which ones used the SH blademark and which used the H only mark ?...all inside the body of the Running Fox. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 24th July 2015 at 07:14 PM. |
|
|
|
|
25th July 2015, 11:05 AM
|
#9 |
|
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: adelaide south australia
Posts: 284
|
#191 the mortuary sword
Hi Eljay,
Great collection of baskets and I particularly like #191 the mortuary sword. Like you I have never seen one with a thumb ring before Cheers Cathey and Rex |
|
|
|
|
25th July 2015, 06:30 PM
|
#10 | |
|
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 10,189
|
Quote:
The whole Hounslow/Shotley Bridge/ Samuel Harvey circumstances in British swords have been a virtual conundrum which most collectors have found daunting at best. The Shotley Bridge factory actually evolved around 1687 with Hermann Mohll and some of the makers of the Hounslow enterprise of earlier in the century comprised of German makers brought in for this purpose. They were closed down c. 1703 then reopened c. 1716 (if I recall correctly) . It seems a good number of swords from earlier blades, probably Hounslow, did use the 'Passau wolf' (running wolf), however it has been suggested that earlier Shotley Bridge weapons also used this. The 'Samuel Harvey' dynasty began in England with Samuel Harvey Sr. (b. 1698). His production was at 74 High Street, and continued until his death in 1778. His son Samuel Harvey Jr. was with him in business , and moved to 4 Cannon Street in 1789. His son Samuel Harvey III was with him in business. Jr. died in 1795, and in turn his son took over until his death in 1810. Effectively, the Harveys made swords from c. 1716 until 1810. It is known that the mid 18th century hangers and some other of their blades were marked with a running 'fox'. These are apparently a nod to the running wolf of the Passau/Solingen fame (clearly a fox with its notably plumed tail) and typically had the initials S H in the body. There seem to be variations, and in some cases only the H is seen, however it is unclear whether in these case the missing letters are simply worn away or indeed never placed there). I have seen one example of the Passau type wolf with an H, and one suggestion it might have been a Hounslow sword, but that idea was discounted and the idea of it being a Harvey variant suggested....but since it is the rough chiseled 'wolf' character, not the 'fox', it seems unlikely. Many of the Harvey blades are simply stamped with the name S Harvey, no fox, and near the hilt, not on the blade center. Others are seen with HARVEY alone. There has been no evidence I am aware of that any particular variation of the fox and initials, or the stamped name were favored or used distinctively by any one of the Harvey men. It does seem the running fox with the SH initials are more consistant on the hangers of mid 18th century however. That's the best I can figure so far, and I wanted to thank you for bringing up this interesting element concerning these blades and makers which as seen do occasionally occur in the blades of these swords. All the best, Jim Last edited by Jim McDougall; 26th July 2015 at 04:35 AM. |
|
|
|
|
|
6th September 2015, 11:32 AM
|
#11 | |
|
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
|
Quote:
Most probably there is nothing new in what i am saying but, the term SOLIDEO may have a rather intentional meaning, when inscribed in a sword. As you know, the solideo is a cap used by bishops and such name originates in the latin "soli Deo tollitur", which means "only before god you take it off". I just thought its inscription in a blade will have the same purpose; something like "only in the name of God you will unsheath it"  .
|
|
|
|
|
|
7th September 2015, 12:30 PM
|
#12 |
|
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 61
|
Hi Ibrahim,
Thanks for the thoughts on SOLIDEO GLORIA. It also means SOLI = only DEO = God GLORIA = glory; so "to God alone belongs the glory", or "Glory only to God" or something similar. A sentiment that fits well with the Puritan theology of many of the Commonwealth forces during the ECW! --ElJay |
|
|
|
|
7th September 2015, 12:56 PM
|
#13 | |
|
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
|
Quote:
I assume your reasoning is indeed better mine, specially the second expression. ... this assuming that you are addressing fernando, not Ibrahiim  .
|
|
|
|
|
|
7th September 2015, 12:59 PM
|
#14 | |
|
Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE
Posts: 4,408
|
Quote:
Soli-Fernando ...That is thanks only to Fernando ..as I had nothing to do with it  Ibrahiim al Balooshi..
|
|
|
|
|
|
8th September 2015, 12:25 PM
|
#15 |
|
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 61
|
Mistaken identity! Sorry about that!
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|
Hybrid Mode
