Taiwanese Aboriginal Blades (need opinions before purchase)

DaveA · 16th July 2015, 10:38 PM

Driftwood,

To my eye, these are age appropriate. The designs of ancestor figures and the representation of the paipushe snake are typical of the Paiwan. You can compare these renderings with others kept in museums and I believe you will find a strong match. Not proof of authenticity, but certainly proof of careful workmanship.

One must remember that the island tribes have been substantially affected in the last 100 plus years by the arrival of large numbers of Han immigrants from China and also by the long Japanese administration. Intermarriage, relocation, and other social mingling has occurred. As a consequence, the distinctiveness of the aboriginal tribes has diminished. Nevertheless, traditions carry on.

It would be my guess that pre-Japanese artifacts from individual tribes such as the Paiwan (Baiwan) are scarce and there is scant chance of such items appearing at a local market.

but it could happen!

These do not look at all like mainland Chinese replicas. Pictures are seldom sufficient so you must judge the quality of the steel and the rest with your own senses. What I do know is I that you already have a story and also a that you are unlikely to find these weapons outside Taiwan. If you don't buy them, you will think about it for years. Finally, should you buy them and then decide you'd prefer the cash, I have little doubt that you could pass them on to another collector.

B/r
Dave A.

varta · 18th July 2015, 06:08 PM

I would not go for any of them.
They do not look good, shoddy workman shift, possibly not authentic (kitchen knife blade made up rusty and recent sculpture aged for the sheath)
You can't expect to pay a real Paiwan knife less than a certain amount, and believe me, swords are expensive in Taiwan; they are scarce.
It might be easier to find one in the USA. Anyhow, I am sorry to say your budget is not enough.
Just go to Shung Ye Museum of Formosan Aborigines, to the Ethnology Institute of the University, go to Museums in Taiwan and enjoy the best quality. One day, you might be able to find and purchase a good sword.

yuanzhumin · 26th July 2015, 08:58 AM

Hello Dave,

I do agree with Bernard that these are not good items.

1- He is right when he says that there is a certain price to pay for Taiwanese knives. When authentic, average ones would be from 1000 USD (30000 TWD) to 5000 USD, the exceptional ones being able to reach 10000 USD, depending on the quality, age, provenance, tribe and rarity.

2-The one you are showing here are bad models made in the 50-60s for American troops stationed in the island. They are tourist items made 50-60 years ago that have been in addition bathed/dipped into a acid product to give them this "old/used" look. Believe me the authentic old ones are in better shape!

3-I would advise you if you really want one of these to follow the international auctions, some are popping up sometimes, but not cheap. or you can buy a new one, recently made by a taiwanese aborigine art craftsman/artisans. They are beautiful and cheap! Some of these knives have been discussed on this forum and some fellow collectors on this forum have bought some!

All the best,

Nicolas

varta · 28th July 2015, 10:24 AM

There are some good examples I uploaded at the end of The Philip Tom article on the Paiwan swords that Yuanzhumin posted some time ago.
(I believe it is better to make no compromise and enjoy the beauty of a old sword in a Museum rather than possessing something mediocre)

16th July 2015, 10:38 PM	#1
DaveA Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 417	Aboriginal Taiwan Swords Driftwood, To my eye, these are age appropriate. The designs of ancestor figures and the representation of the paipushe snake are typical of the Paiwan. You can compare these renderings with others kept in museums and I believe you will find a strong match. Not proof of authenticity, but certainly proof of careful workmanship. One must remember that the island tribes have been substantially affected in the last 100 plus years by the arrival of large numbers of Han immigrants from China and also by the long Japanese administration. Intermarriage, relocation, and other social mingling has occurred. As a consequence, the distinctiveness of the aboriginal tribes has diminished. Nevertheless, traditions carry on. It would be my guess that pre-Japanese artifacts from individual tribes such as the Paiwan (Baiwan) are scarce and there is scant chance of such items appearing at a local market. but it could happen! These do not look at all like mainland Chinese replicas. Pictures are seldom sufficient so you must judge the quality of the steel and the rest with your own senses. What I do know is I that you already have a story and also a that you are unlikely to find these weapons outside Taiwan. If you don't buy them, you will think about it for years. Finally, should you buy them and then decide you'd prefer the cash, I have little doubt that you could pass them on to another collector. B/r Dave A.

26th July 2015, 08:58 AM	#3
yuanzhumin Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ex-Taipei, Taiwan, now in Shanghai, China Posts: 180	Taiwan aboriginal blades Hello Dave, I do agree with Bernard that these are not good items. 1- He is right when he says that there is a certain price to pay for Taiwanese knives. When authentic, average ones would be from 1000 USD (30000 TWD) to 5000 USD, the exceptional ones being able to reach 10000 USD, depending on the quality, age, provenance, tribe and rarity. 2-The one you are showing here are bad models made in the 50-60s for American troops stationed in the island. They are tourist items made 50-60 years ago that have been in addition bathed/dipped into a acid product to give them this "old/used" look. Believe me the authentic old ones are in better shape! 3-I would advise you if you really want one of these to follow the international auctions, some are popping up sometimes, but not cheap. or you can buy a new one, recently made by a taiwanese aborigine art craftsman/artisans. They are beautiful and cheap! Some of these knives have been discussed on this forum and some fellow collectors on this forum have bought some! All the best, Nicolas

18th July 2015, 06:08 PM	#2
varta Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Berlin-Paris Posts: 37	I would not go for any of them. They do not look good, shoddy workman shift, possibly not authentic (kitchen knife blade made up rusty and recent sculpture aged for the sheath) You can't expect to pay a real Paiwan knife less than a certain amount, and believe me, swords are expensive in Taiwan; they are scarce. It might be easier to find one in the USA. Anyhow, I am sorry to say your budget is not enough. Just go to Shung Ye Museum of Formosan Aborigines, to the Ethnology Institute of the University, go to Museums in Taiwan and enjoy the best quality. One day, you might be able to find and purchase a good sword.

28th July 2015, 10:24 AM	#4
varta Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Berlin-Paris Posts: 37	There are some good examples I uploaded at the end of The Philip Tom article on the Paiwan swords that Yuanzhumin posted some time ago. (I believe it is better to make no compromise and enjoy the beauty of a old sword in a Museum rather than possessing something mediocre)