Nice Spanish Colonial Sword

Robert · 20th December 2005, 09:40 PM

Nice Spanish Colonial sword with brass guard and fittings the butt plate is faceted. The grip is carved horn in the shape of a horse hoof. The pictures that I have at the present do not do the carving justice. Thanks for looking and all comments on this sword are welcome.

Blade length is 20-7/8 inches
Blade width at widest point is 1-1/8 inches
Blade thickness at the hilt is 1/4 inch
Hilt length is 5-7/8 inches

Robert

Chris Evans · 21st December 2005, 12:15 AM

Hi Robert,

Why do you think that it is Spanish colonial? And if so, from where?

Cheers
Chris

Robert · 21st December 2005, 02:20 AM

Hi Chris,
IMHO this sword is from the Philippines around the end of the 19th to early 20th century. It think that it is probably from Luzon. The styling shows a lot of European influence that to me looks Spanish. If I am wrong about any of this the experts here on the forum will hopefully correct me.

Here is another sword from my collection of similar styling.

Battara · 21st December 2005, 04:47 AM

I would agree that both pieces, Robert, are Luzon. I like the first one best due to the carved hilt - very perdy.

I would say that the blade was from a cut down Spanish sword - not unheard of during the turn of the century.

Robert · 21st December 2005, 07:04 AM

Battara,
I agree that the first one with the carved hilt does look quite a bit better than the second but the second one to me seems like a more practical weapon to carry into battle.

The blades on both swords are almost identical. The main difference is the bevel on the top edge of the first sword. One other thing I might mention is that in the pictures of the first sword it looks like it has a fuller, but that is just an optical illusion caused by the camera and lighting. As soon as my daughter brings my camera back "again" I will take pictures of them both side by side. Hopefully I will be able to take better pictures of the hilt because like I said earlier these pictures don't do the carving justice. I thank you very much for your opinion on these.

Robert

Battara · 21st December 2005, 08:20 AM

So this is a lighting effect? W W! Ok, well, that changes some things aboiut the blade then.

Regarding Luzon blades, especially Tagalog and Ilocano, they will not be a beefy as Moro. The fighting styles were different. In the north, Luzon, they were more influenced by Spanish espada y daga and in this one uses a long sword and a dagger. The bolos were more used like this than for chopping like the Moro barung or kampilan, or even the talibon. They were effective, but in different ways.

Robert · 21st December 2005, 03:28 PM

Battara,
Maybe you will answer a question for me that I have ask before on the forum but never received an answer for. On Brass fittings like the first sword has, is it better to clean and polish them or is it better to just clean them and leave them alone?

Robert

Battara · 22nd December 2005, 06:57 PM

I think the reason you have not gotten an answer is that there are differing opinions among the experts. I have even seen 2 opposite opinions coming from Sothebys!

For now, clean it but don't polish it yet. Bronze don't polish for any reason, but brass some say yes it was meant to be polished, some say no. Silver it raises the value to polish. Brass - jury still out.

Maybe more than you originally wanted, but hope this helps somewhat.

Robert · 22nd December 2005, 08:55 PM

Battara
No, not more than I ask for.

I do how ever know to NEVER polish bronze. I was hoping that brass would be in the same class as silver and is OK to polish. One thing about brass is if you don't wax it after cleaning, it will tarnish back pretty fast. Thank you for your reply.

Robert

Chris Evans · 23rd December 2005, 04:45 AM

Hi Robert,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Coleman

Hi Chris,
IMHO this sword is from the Philippines around the end of the 19th to early 20th century. It think that it is probably from Luzon. The styling shows a lot of European influence that to me looks Spanish. If I am wrong about any of this the experts here on the forum will hopefully correct me.

Here is another sword from my collection of similar styling.

When you said Spanish colonial, my mind immediately went to Sth America., but of course, the Philippines were also a Spanish colony.

I have never seen anything like it in Latin America and since I know zilch about Filipino weapons, I'll bow out.

As an aside, at least as far as the blade and the quillons go, that would be considered a "facon", that is a large knife/dagger, in Sth America, rather than a sword.

Have a great Xmas and happy new year

Cheers
Chris

20th December 2005, 09:40 PM	#1
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Nice Spanish Colonial Sword Nice Spanish Colonial sword with brass guard and fittings the butt plate is faceted. The grip is carved horn in the shape of a horse hoof. The pictures that I have at the present do not do the carving justice. Thanks for looking and all comments on this sword are welcome. Blade length is 20-7/8 inches Blade width at widest point is 1-1/8 inches Blade thickness at the hilt is 1/4 inch Hilt length is 5-7/8 inches Robert Attached Images

21st December 2005, 02:20 AM	#3
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hi Chris, IMHO this sword is from the Philippines around the end of the 19th to early 20th century. It think that it is probably from Luzon. The styling shows a lot of European influence that to me looks Spanish. If I am wrong about any of this the experts here on the forum will hopefully correct me. Here is another sword from my collection of similar styling. Attached Images

21st December 2005, 12:15 AM	#2
Chris Evans Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 685	Hi Robert, Why do you think that it is Spanish colonial? And if so, from where? Cheers Chris

21st December 2005, 04:47 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	I would agree that both pieces, Robert, are Luzon. I like the first one best due to the carved hilt - very perdy. I would say that the blade was from a cut down Spanish sword - not unheard of during the turn of the century.

21st December 2005, 07:04 AM	#5
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Battara, I agree that the first one with the carved hilt does look quite a bit better than the second but the second one to me seems like a more practical weapon to carry into battle. The blades on both swords are almost identical. The main difference is the bevel on the top edge of the first sword. One other thing I might mention is that in the pictures of the first sword it looks like it has a fuller, but that is just an optical illusion caused by the camera and lighting. As soon as my daughter brings my camera back "again" I will take pictures of them both side by side. Hopefully I will be able to take better pictures of the hilt because like I said earlier these pictures don't do the carving justice. I thank you very much for your opinion on these. Robert

21st December 2005, 08:20 AM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	So this is a lighting effect? W W! Ok, well, that changes some things aboiut the blade then. Regarding Luzon blades, especially Tagalog and Ilocano, they will not be a beefy as Moro. The fighting styles were different. In the north, Luzon, they were more influenced by Spanish espada y daga and in this one uses a long sword and a dagger. The bolos were more used like this than for chopping like the Moro barung or kampilan, or even the talibon. They were effective, but in different ways.

21st December 2005, 03:28 PM	#7
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Battara, Maybe you will answer a question for me that I have ask before on the forum but never received an answer for. On Brass fittings like the first sword has, is it better to clean and polish them or is it better to just clean them and leave them alone? Robert

22nd December 2005, 06:57 PM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	I think the reason you have not gotten an answer is that there are differing opinions among the experts. I have even seen 2 opposite opinions coming from Sothebys! For now, clean it but don't polish it yet. Bronze don't polish for any reason, but brass some say yes it was meant to be polished, some say no. Silver it raises the value to polish. Brass - jury still out. Maybe more than you originally wanted, but hope this helps somewhat.

22nd December 2005, 08:55 PM	#9
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Battara No, not more than I ask for. I do how ever know to NEVER polish bronze. I was hoping that brass would be in the same class as silver and is OK to polish. One thing about brass is if you don't wax it after cleaning, it will tarnish back pretty fast. Thank you for your reply. Robert