Over cleaning the keris blade?

[Jean]

Originally Posted by Green

Thanks all for the explanation. Here is an example of what I would call an over cleaned blade.It looked shiny , smooth to the touch and the color is silvery. compared to what some would view as 'normal' surface which is duller original color and the surface feels somewhat like v fine sandpaper (the second pic).

Hello Green,
IMO and by Indonesian standards your blade is not over cleaned but poorly maintained, it has several rust spots and the pamor pattern looks indistinct probably because the blade surface was polished with fine abrasive materials.
Personally I would have it professionally cleaned and stained, see an example of a blade before and after treating it with warangan.
Regards

[Green]

Jean,

this is precisely what I am talking about. the pre cleaned pic of the blade you posted is what I would think is the one intended to be and preferred by many collectors in this region (?). At best it should be only lightly cleaned without destroying the texture and color of the blade.

The cleaned blade you showed whould be considered 'overcleaned' and destroyed the surface of the blade in my untutored opinion.

This is only my uneducated view but based on the kerises I've seen in museums here I've not seen any keris that are cleaned as such and they all are left rusty and looking 'aged'.

[Jean]

Hello Green,
Thank you for your views on the subject and other opinions will be welcome. There seems to be some differences in the kris culture between Indonesia and Malaysia?
Regards

[David]

Originally Posted by Green

This is only my uneducated view but based on the kerises I've seen in museums here I've not seen any keris that are cleaned as such and they all are left rusty and looking 'aged'.

Green, you would not likely see keris in museums presented in the way Jean's stained blade is because it is not generally the practice of museums to restore a keris, but rather to conserve it, to preserve it at the same level as when it was received at the time of collection.However, when a keris of this sort was actively being used within the culture it would be part of a regular ritual process to clean and re-stain the blade.
Likewise collectors have different approaches for the care of keris dependent upon how they relate to the weapon culturally. Some like to keep keris at the same condition as when collected, other treat the keris as if it is still active within the culture and give it the treatment that would be expected of someone's personal keris.

[Sajen]

Hello Green,

I think that Javanese collectors will clean and etch their keris blades as well. A keris from Java, Madura and Bali has pamor and to show the pamor is what it is to intended to do IMHO. A Malay keris don't have pamor normally and don't get a warangan normally.
I agree also with the statement from David in up.
Here is a blade from Java from my collection before and after cleaning and warangan.

Regards,
Detlef

[Gustav]

Originally Posted by Sajen

A Malay keris don't have pamor normally and don't get a warangan normally.

I have seen and own some malay keris with quite elaborated pamor, which have old staining with strong contrast, and own a Pandai Saras blade without contrasting pamor, which has an old staining, completely black.

Perhaps the best Cherita blade ever (in the most elaboarted Tajog dress) from Basel, which is depicted in Kerners book of Keris hilts, is polished like a Balinese blade and is stained dark, without showing different materials in he blade.

The light grey staining prefferred by collectors for malay blades is a relatively new tendency in my oppinion.