Kampilan with unusual hilt

carlos · 18th June 2015, 11:44 AM

This is one of my last adquisitions. Is my first kampilan with this type of hilt. The description from seller was :
CARVED WOOD HANDLE.
TOTAL LENGTH: 88.5 CM.
BLADE LENGTH: 66.5 CM.
HANDLE: 22 * ??14.5 CM.

I hope enjoy with pictures
brst regards
carlos

kino · 18th June 2015, 04:39 PM

Very nice and unusual Carlos.
It seems to have a well defined octagonal handle. Would you know if it were wrapped before rattan or otherwise?
I've never seen a pommel like this before.
Thanks for sharing.

CharlesS · 18th June 2015, 06:15 PM

When I see hilt pommels like this I immediately look to see if they are cut down from broken "open mouth" pommels and they usually are.

This one, however, is not and is original as is.

It's a lovely piece and a GREAT fine! Congrats!

Maurice · 18th June 2015, 08:54 PM

Congrats Carlos!

A beautifull old piece!

Maurice

kai · 18th June 2015, 08:59 PM

Hello Carlos,

Quote:

This is one of my last adquisitions. Is my first kampilan with this type of hilt.

Congrats, another great kampilan for your collection!

Is this human hair or horse?

Could you please post a close-up of the hairy side of the pommel?

Regards,
Kai

Battara · 19th June 2015, 01:56 AM

Thank you for posting this interesting and wonderful piece. Congratulations! All original.

Rick · 19th June 2015, 02:25 AM

The pommel seems almost Hawaiian, or Tahitian in form .

Battara · 19th June 2015, 07:41 PM

Rick the designs are very Moro.

That being said, Polynesians and Filipinos and Moros are genetically, culturally, and even somewhat linguistically related.

Ian · 20th June 2015, 08:31 AM

Hi Carlos:

Very nice and unusual example.

How old do you think it may be? The carving on the hilt and cross guard look very crisp and appear to have had little handling--might suggest relatively recent manufacture. The hair "implants" look to be nearly all there (unusual to find on older pieces). Hard to tell from the picture how old the blade might be. My initial thought was that this might be second half of 20th C, but only inspection in hand would allow an accurate estimate of age.

Good find!

Ian.

Jim McDougall · 20th June 2015, 05:46 PM

While these are admittedly out of my usual range of study, I must say this is a fascinating example, and has rekindled my interest in the kampilan. It does not seem we see many here as a rule, and I wanted to thank Carlos for sharing it, and especially you guys for entering key observations and notes!

As a reader in this case, I am very grateful to have these key notes which attend to observations and explain the character of variations.

I am inclined to agree Ian on the character of the hilt, which indeed does not seem with the same age as the blade, but again, is fascinating in its design.
If I might ask for more thoughts on the blade from those of you who are keen collectors of these. Is it possible some of the staining which seems present could be from 'cosmoline' or the type of storage preservative
often seen on weapons of early 20th century and in military or arsenal context?
I was wondering if perhaps during occupation at close of Spanish-American War period perhaps old examples or blades might have been stored by Filipino forces, and this might have reentered the population at later date. Possibly the remount might have been designed specifically toward a more ceremonial or traditional role then.

Again, the 'kampilan' is a fascinating weapon form and I'd like to know about it's origins and history so I will open another thread on that topic so as not to detract from discussion on this great example here.

Ian · 20th June 2015, 06:08 PM

Hi Jim:

I have found an occasional bring back of a US serviceman to have been treated with cosmoline or even varnished to prevent rust. These were mainly early 20th C items or immediately after WWII.

I doubt that the Moros would have used that technique to preserve and then rehabilitate old blades. Not heard of them doing that. Basically, old weapons that were no longer serviceable would be recycled into newly forged weapons or other useful items.

Some datus might have been in the habit of stockpiling weapons to arm their warriors in times of warfare, but individual Moro warriors usually carried their own weapons. Captured weapons might well have been stockpiled or handed out to the victors for their personal use--I'm sure an extra battle worthy kris or barung or kampilan was always worth having around the house. Whether some of these might have been refurbished at a later time is hard to say.

Ian

Jim McDougall · 20th June 2015, 07:27 PM

Thanks Ian!
My idea was that perhaps some of the auxiliaries or tribal groups might have picked up the concept or maybe even the material from American forces there. Whatever the case, there does seem to be good age to this blade and if it had belonged to a particularly notable warrior may have been held aside as a heirloom. The detail in the profiled tip of the blade I think is really fascinating and wonder what it means.

Jim

carlos · 20th June 2015, 08:30 PM

hello !!
i think is a 19 century kampilan, in Spain is unusual find fake kampilan. The most of them are "souvenirs" from war in the end of 19 century.
I add more pictures.
Thanks all forum members by comments.
best regards

carlos

Battara · 20th June 2015, 09:17 PM

The hair plugs look like Hey have age and wear to them. I agree that this is late 19th century. It also looks like ther may have been a silver okired plate on both sides of the pommel - I see nail holes in your pictures.

Ian · 21st June 2015, 12:33 AM

Yes, the latest pics would indicate more age to the hilt, as you suggest. A very nice and unusual example.

Ian

18th June 2015, 11:44 AM	#1
carlos Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 737	Kampilan with unusual hilt This is one of my last adquisitions. Is my first kampilan with this type of hilt. The description from seller was : CARVED WOOD HANDLE. TOTAL LENGTH: 88.5 CM. BLADE LENGTH: 66.5 CM. HANDLE: 22 * ??14.5 CM. I hope enjoy with pictures brst regards carlos Attached Images

19th June 2015, 02:25 AM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Polynesian Connection ? The pommel seems almost Hawaiian, or Tahitian in form .

20th June 2015, 08:30 PM	#13
carlos Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 737	hello !! i think is a 19 century kampilan, in Spain is unusual find fake kampilan. The most of them are "souvenirs" from war in the end of 19 century. I add more pictures. Thanks all forum members by comments. best regards carlos Attached Images

18th June 2015, 04:39 PM	#2
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,002	Very nice and unusual Carlos. It seems to have a well defined octagonal handle. Would you know if it were wrapped before rattan or otherwise? I've never seen a pommel like this before. Thanks for sharing.

18th June 2015, 06:15 PM	#3
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	When I see hilt pommels like this I immediately look to see if they are cut down from broken "open mouth" pommels and they usually are. This one, however, is not and is original as is. It's a lovely piece and a GREAT fine! Congrats!

18th June 2015, 08:54 PM	#4
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,346	Congrats Carlos! A beautifull old piece! Maurice

19th June 2015, 01:56 AM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Thank you for posting this interesting and wonderful piece. Congratulations! All original.

19th June 2015, 07:41 PM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Rick the designs are very Moro. That being said, Polynesians and Filipinos and Moros are genetically, culturally, and even somewhat linguistically related.

20th June 2015, 08:31 AM	#9
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,198	Hi Carlos: Very nice and unusual example. How old do you think it may be? The carving on the hilt and cross guard look very crisp and appear to have had little handling--might suggest relatively recent manufacture. The hair "implants" look to be nearly all there (unusual to find on older pieces). Hard to tell from the picture how old the blade might be. My initial thought was that this might be second half of 20th C, but only inspection in hand would allow an accurate estimate of age. Good find! Ian.

20th June 2015, 05:46 PM	#10
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,944	While these are admittedly out of my usual range of study, I must say this is a fascinating example, and has rekindled my interest in the kampilan. It does not seem we see many here as a rule, and I wanted to thank Carlos for sharing it, and especially you guys for entering key observations and notes! As a reader in this case, I am very grateful to have these key notes which attend to observations and explain the character of variations. I am inclined to agree Ian on the character of the hilt, which indeed does not seem with the same age as the blade, but again, is fascinating in its design. If I might ask for more thoughts on the blade from those of you who are keen collectors of these. Is it possible some of the staining which seems present could be from 'cosmoline' or the type of storage preservative often seen on weapons of early 20th century and in military or arsenal context? I was wondering if perhaps during occupation at close of Spanish-American War period perhaps old examples or blades might have been stored by Filipino forces, and this might have reentered the population at later date. Possibly the remount might have been designed specifically toward a more ceremonial or traditional role then. Again, the 'kampilan' is a fascinating weapon form and I'd like to know about it's origins and history so I will open another thread on that topic so as not to detract from discussion on this great example here.

20th June 2015, 06:08 PM	#11
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,198	Hi Jim: I have found an occasional bring back of a US serviceman to have been treated with cosmoline or even varnished to prevent rust. These were mainly early 20th C items or immediately after WWII. I doubt that the Moros would have used that technique to preserve and then rehabilitate old blades. Not heard of them doing that. Basically, old weapons that were no longer serviceable would be recycled into newly forged weapons or other useful items. Some datus might have been in the habit of stockpiling weapons to arm their warriors in times of warfare, but individual Moro warriors usually carried their own weapons. Captured weapons might well have been stockpiled or handed out to the victors for their personal use--I'm sure an extra battle worthy kris or barung or kampilan was always worth having around the house. Whether some of these might have been refurbished at a later time is hard to say. Ian

20th June 2015, 07:27 PM	#12
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,944	Thanks Ian! My idea was that perhaps some of the auxiliaries or tribal groups might have picked up the concept or maybe even the material from American forces there. Whatever the case, there does seem to be good age to this blade and if it had belonged to a particularly notable warrior may have been held aside as a heirloom. The detail in the profiled tip of the blade I think is really fascinating and wonder what it means. Jim

20th June 2015, 09:17 PM	#14
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	The hair plugs look like Hey have age and wear to them. I agree that this is late 19th century. It also looks like ther may have been a silver okired plate on both sides of the pommel - I see nail holes in your pictures.

21st June 2015, 12:33 AM	#15
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,198	Yes, the latest pics would indicate more age to the hilt, as you suggest. A very nice and unusual example. Ian