Highly unusual "Moro" kris/keris

[Ian]

The item below was sold in 2011 by the respected auction company Hermann Historica (Auction 61, Lot no. 3216, May 2-3, 2011) for the relatively low price of 200 euros. It was listed as "Kleiner Kris der Moro."

While the hilt and scabbard are consistent with Moro, it obviously has a keris blade from the Indonesian archipelago. Perhaps our Keris Warung Kopi colleagues can help with the age and origin of this blade.

I cannot recall seeing a similar example. Has anyone here seen another example of a keris in Moro dress?

It seems that the bidders at the auction were not overly impressed by this ensemble, at least judging from what it sold for.

Ian.

[Rafngard]

Wow. Just wow.

The real question is whether that was done ethnographically or or not?

I don't suppose you have any measurements on this?

Have fun,
Leif

[Ian]

Rafngard:

Here is the description provided by Hermann Historica in May, 2011 catalog. Perhaps someone more fluent in German than I am could translate the description.

Kleiner Kris der Moro,

Mindanao, 1. Hälfte 20. Jhdt. Gewellte Rasenerzklinge mit geschnittener Wurzel und Neusilbermanschette. Neusilber- und kupferdrahtgefasster Griff mit beschnitztem Beinknauf. Holzscheide mit drei Neusilberbändern. Länge 35,5 cm.

Provenienz: Freiherr von Hochstetter, Düsseldorf.

From this it appears that the overall length was 35.5 cm (14 inches), hence the listing as a Small Moro Kris. First half of the 20th C seems correct based on the scabbard style. The scabbard style looks Maguindanao or Maranao to me, so the attribution to the island of Mindanao also seems correct.


Ian

[Sajen]

Hello Ian,

the blade look like a Bugis or Peninsula keris blade to my eyes.

Shall I translate the description from Hermann Historica?

Regards,
Detlef

[Ian]

Thanks Detlef. Yes, please do translate the description.

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Ian,

the blade look like a Bugis or Peninsula keris blade to my eyes.

Shall I translate the description from Hermann Historica?

Regards,
Detlef

[kai]

Hello Ian,

Here is the description provided by Hermann Historica in May, 2011 catalog.

Kleiner Kris der Moro,
Mindanao, 1. Hälfte 20. Jhdt. Gewellte Rasenerzklinge mit geschnittener Wurzel und Neusilbermanschette. Neusilber- und kupferdrahtgefasster Griff mit beschnitztem Beinknauf. Holzscheide mit drei Neusilberbändern. Länge 35,5 cm.
Provenienz: Freiherr von Hochstetter, Düsseldorf.

As usual, all auction house "descriptions" should be taken with a large lump of salt...

Translation:
Small kris of the Moro peoples
Mindanao, first half of the 20th century. Curved (i. e. with luk) pamor blade with scroll work (i. e. ricikan) at the base and white brass clamp. [comment: "Raseneisenerzklinge" is an idiosyncratic term of HH's "expert" which doesn't seem to imply more than local production, i. e. forging with visible layers of iron, i. e. pamor...]
Hilt with white metal bands and copper wire, and carved ivory/bone pommel.
Wooden scabbard with white metal bands.
[Total] length 35.5 cm. [14 inches]
Provenance: Freiherr von Hochstetter, Düsseldorf [Not sure how much this provenance helps: At least the items attributed to this private collection were above the average seen at these auctions which usually includes quite a bit of Karmadikan pieces. However, also some pieces from this collection seemed to be not antique and possibly cobbled together IMVHO.]

This is one of those pieces which one would like to examine personally before deciding to acquire it. The blade didn't appeal to me that much and I decided not to take the risk of bidding from pics (as obviously did others, too). In the worst case, I missed out on an antique ivory pommel with genuine silver and suasa fittings...

Note that the base of the blade includes pretty unusual ricikan: the gangya (at the gandik side) has those lines which are fairly rare in Indo keris while they are even emphasised with Moro kris. However, these don't look like Moro craftsmanship to me. Moreover, for the kembang kacang an unusually large opening seems to have cut. Thus, I'm not convinced that this is an Indo keris blade with localised fittings. This might rather be a Moro attempt to mimic an Indo keris blade?

Regards,
Kai

[Sajen]

Just see that Kai beats me by the translation. The remarks about this collection I can confirm!

Regards,
Detlef

[Roland_M]

""Raseneisenerzklinge" is an idiosyncratic term of HH's "expert" which doesn't seem to imply more than local production, i. e. forging with visible layers of iron, i. e. pamor."

---


Raseneisenerz is bog iron / Limonite (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bog_iron) or in german (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raseneisenstein).

Regards, Roland

[David]

Originally Posted by Sajen

the blade look like a Bugis or Peninsula keris blade to my eyes.

hmmmm....i am afraid that very little of this blade looks either Bugis or Peninsula to me, especially when you look specifically at the kembang kacang and the greneng, though this is a tough photo to make too many exacting observations about.
I would certainly need to examine this more closely, but Kai might be on the right track considering the possibility that it is Moro made in the likeness of an Indo keris.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by David

hmmmm....i am afraid that very little of this blade looks either Bugis or Peninsula to me, especially when you look specifically at the kembang kacang and the greneng, though this is a tough photo to make too many exacting observations about.
I would certainly need to examine this more closely, but Kai might be on the right track considering the possibility that it is Moro made in the likeness of an Indo keris.

I am as well not sure and never would put my hand in fire for this. But when I remember correct we have discussed some time ago a similar blade with such a "cut out" kembang kacang. Very unusual kris and I am not very surprised that this piece don't went high by the auction.

Regards,
Detlef

[Spunjer]

possibility that it was put together for a boy? just thinking out loud... actually more of a dagger than a sword.
i have a similar size kris. notice the somewhat similarity on the pommel shape.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17109

[Battara]

Remember too that there was a lot of trade between the Indonesian islands and the Moro Philippines.

[kai]

Hello Jose,

Remember too that there was a lot of trade between the Indonesian islands and the Moro Philippines.

Yes, this is well noted. However, if this were an Indo (or Malay) trade keris blade, one would expect it to be a rather common style and not a kinda unique piece...

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

Hello Ron,

i have a similar size kris. notice the somewhat similarity on the pommel shape.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17109

Thanks for the link - good to have this one for comparison!

Actually, how does your kris grip feel when utilising it for stabbing?

I'm not positive that I'd call both pommels being stylistically similar/related though (except for restrictions due to diminutive size).

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

Hello Roland,

Raseneisenerz is bog iron / Limonite (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bog_iron) or in german (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raseneisenstein).

Thanks for adding these info!

There is no doubt that bog iron deposits were utilised, too. However, after the necessary "washing" of the iron during preparations for forging, it would become very tough to differentiate the actual origin of the iron, especially for quality blades with extensively washed iron.

Considering the indiscriminate use of the term by HH (including Karmadikan pieces - cp. the catalogs), I highly doubt that there's any special expertise on iron ore origin at work...

Regards,
Kai

[Rick]

My 2 cents; the blade strikes me on sight as Indonesian in origin; kind of in the style of early east Java but not very old .
I could see possibly a Moro attempt, except the pamor construction and control is too Java-Madura in style IMO to be Moro .

Maybe a marriage of new and old(er) .

[Battara]

Rick that is what I am thinking - a marriage. I will say Kai, that in general I would agree with you, however, for a wealthy datu, he would probably be able to afford a better Indonesian (East Javan?) blade.

[David]

Originally Posted by Spunjer

possibility that it was put together for a boy? just thinking out loud... actually more of a dagger than a sword.
i have a similar size kris. notice the somewhat similarity on the pommel shape.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17109

I think the real difference here Ron is that your blade looks 100% Moro while this most certainly does not.
Again, i hate to make too many judgements based on this one unclear photo, but the iron color and style of this pamor looks a bit like more contemporary Madura efforts and made me also wonder if this isn't old Moro dress married to a more recent Indonesian blade.