Go on...show us your Choora!!

Andrew · 13th June 2015, 07:07 PM

I suggest all participants in this thread heed the sage advice offered by Fernando, David and Ian.

I have been busy with other pressing personal matters, but I find the on-topic posts here interesting and stimulating. Accordingly, I will likely check in frequently on the discussion. Those of you who are familiar with my approach to moderation know what to expect. Those of you who are new, well, let's just say I employ a rather...blunt form of diplomacy.

Andrew
Vikingsword Staff

Jens Nordlunde · 13th June 2015, 09:36 PM

Nice to see you here Andrew:-)
Always nice to see you - but when threads seem to run a bit out of hands, it is nice that there is an anchor man.
Jens

Andrew · 13th June 2015, 11:51 PM

Hello, my friend! Hope all is well with you and yours, Jens.

ariel · 14th June 2015, 03:51 AM

Gavin,
Thanks for your input. I am glad we are on the same page re. age of a Choora as a pattern.

I can easily see your point re. smaller choora: it is much cruder and the handle is very primitive.
However, do we really know that such village-level examples were not manufactured in the 19th century? As I mentioned earlier, there must have been local production of simple, inexpensive and replaceable knives made locally, without resorting to fancy blades and expensive materials. We see it with each and every antique oriental weapon.

Egerton, in his comment to #750 mentions Ch'hura, a " strong, heavy knife" made in Khorassan, Kandahar and Jellalabad. Did he have in mind a Choora as we refer to it in this discussion or a Khyber Knife? We will never know, because the main item he described ( #750) is an unquestionable Khyber. However, he mentions Ch'hura in the same breath, as a separate example. Most importantly from my perspective is the mention of both local and imported examples. There mush have been gradations of quality. Pure IMHO :-)

My Pakistani fellow contacted his father-in-law who is a language professor in a small university in Pakhtunkhwa and his friend, a colonel in Pakistani military, who has connections in the Military Museum in Rawalpindi. Regretfully, contacts with Afghani specialists are not possible now.....

ariel · 1st July 2015, 07:45 PM

Another interesting twist:

Harvey Withers, a well-known and respected dealer fom the UK, posted this Choora on E-bay ( it is sold).
The interesting thing is the presense of a lead museum tag with Queen Victoria's mark and , on the reverse, the location of this Choora in the muzeum ( hall and position). This info is per Mr. Withers' information.
Victoria reigned in the 19th century:-)

Tim Simmons · 1st July 2015, 07:53 PM

Unless you can add more information the crown does not mean Victoria.

spiral · 1st July 2015, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Harvey Withers, a well-known and respected dealer from the UK, :-)

His books are full of incredibly misidentified pieces. I suggest you get a couple of his books to read....

ariel · 1st July 2015, 08:47 PM

Please address all queries to Mr. Withers.

I am just a messenger, quoting his description.

13th June 2015, 07:07 PM	#1
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Moderator Comment I suggest all participants in this thread heed the sage advice offered by Fernando, David and Ian. I have been busy with other pressing personal matters, but I find the on-topic posts here interesting and stimulating. Accordingly, I will likely check in frequently on the discussion. Those of you who are familiar with my approach to moderation know what to expect. Those of you who are new, well, let's just say I employ a rather...blunt form of diplomacy. Andrew Vikingsword Staff

1st July 2015, 07:45 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Another interesting twist: Harvey Withers, a well-known and respected dealer fom the UK, posted this Choora on E-bay ( it is sold). The interesting thing is the presense of a lead museum tag with Queen Victoria's mark and , on the reverse, the location of this Choora in the muzeum ( hall and position). This info is per Mr. Withers' information. Victoria reigned in the 19th century:-) Attached Images

13th June 2015, 09:36 PM	#2
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Nice to see you here Andrew:-) Always nice to see you - but when threads seem to run a bit out of hands, it is nice that there is an anchor man. Jens

13th June 2015, 11:51 PM	#3
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Hello, my friend! Hope all is well with you and yours, Jens.

14th June 2015, 03:51 AM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Gavin, Thanks for your input. I am glad we are on the same page re. age of a Choora as a pattern. I can easily see your point re. smaller choora: it is much cruder and the handle is very primitive. However, do we really know that such village-level examples were not manufactured in the 19th century? As I mentioned earlier, there must have been local production of simple, inexpensive and replaceable knives made locally, without resorting to fancy blades and expensive materials. We see it with each and every antique oriental weapon. Egerton, in his comment to #750 mentions Ch'hura, a " strong, heavy knife" made in Khorassan, Kandahar and Jellalabad. Did he have in mind a Choora as we refer to it in this discussion or a Khyber Knife? We will never know, because the main item he described ( #750) is an unquestionable Khyber. However, he mentions Ch'hura in the same breath, as a separate example. Most importantly from my perspective is the mention of both local and imported examples. There mush have been gradations of quality. Pure IMHO :-) My Pakistani fellow contacted his father-in-law who is a language professor in a small university in Pakhtunkhwa and his friend, a colonel in Pakistani military, who has connections in the Military Museum in Rawalpindi. Regretfully, contacts with Afghani specialists are not possible now.....

1st July 2015, 07:53 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	Unless you can add more information the crown does not mean Victoria.

1st July 2015, 08:47 PM	#8
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Please address all queries to Mr. Withers. I am just a messenger, quoting his description.