Odd Sword

Jim McDougall · 6th June 2015, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi,
The design on the ricasso of British swords is of two interlocking triangles signifying strength, it has nothing to do with the Star of David, the Seal of Solomon or any other six pointed device esoteric, artistic or otherwise. Hope this clears up the misconceptions re this symbol on British blades.
Regards,
Norman.

Well noted Norman!
We got that from Wilkinson during research when it was suggested that the 'star' surround with the proof slug may have been associated to Masonic symbolism. As with many forms of symbol, they often have many connotations and possible meaning in many contexts.

All the best,
Jim

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 7th June 2015, 02:03 PM

I place again the detail important in considering the nature of the star geometry on this added to sword at Project... The tang is extended and the pommel is added ...therefor, the star design should be seen in that context...

Quote"Star of David researchers generally indicate the Non-Jewish Star of David by the name Hexagram. Hexagram is a name invented only in recent centuries; I mean, it is not known for thousands of years how the non-Jewish Stars of David were named. "Hex" is the Greek word that represents the number six, "gram" means form. Even the Christian name for the Shield of David "the Star of David" was invented only in recent centuries.

Muslims called the Star of David always the Seal of Solomon, but Seal of Solomon was used both in Judaism and in Islam also as the name of a pentagram. The Indian Star of David is commonly named Yantra".Unquote.

Star and Hexagram appear in Islamic tradition and can be seen on Islamic Silver ..from Oman on items I have researched on ladies head dress and broches as part of an in depth appreciation of Omani Silver generally...Both the star and Hex are common in this regard. However, no hex designs are recorded or seen on Omani Swords in the ceremonial style or other Omani Swords as Pommel decoration thus this decoration appears as a one off and unrelated issue.

Below I place pictures relevant to tang and Pommel extension and an idea of the type of design on Pommels (which usually don't have any design at all) See also the form of Omani Silver showing stars and the pentagon or Hex design but in the Islamic meaning unrelated to the Jewish style..See the Hexagon decoration on what I recall was a Red Sea variant applied probably in the Yemen to the throat of the blade... For interest.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 8th June 2015, 02:04 PM

Or .... are we looking at a Portuguese blade ?... see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...tuguese+swords It occurred to me that the tang looks very old....and compare the Ricasso ... It looks Portuguese. Is it possible that this is originally a Portuguese weapon and a left over after they left Oman in 1650?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

fernando · 19th July 2015, 07:55 PM

Am i missing a couple points here ... or are my eyes tricking me ?

:

Isn't there one more letter (figure) before the five ones that have been mentioned, close from the tang ... as also a sign that the blade has been longer ?
Isn't the particularity of the blade being riveted to the tang also an oddity ?

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 20th July 2015, 06:32 PM

The letters appear to read...or are inscribed similar to M 5 1 D D M

The rivets are indeed odd. See another rivet application at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=blade+rivets post #271.

Salaams Ibrahiim al Balooshi...

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 22nd July 2015, 03:39 PM

Salaams all...

Then again if we look at Cyrillic capitals turning this line upside down M 5 1 D D M and discarding for now the two outer M looking letters ... stay with me and no cheating by standing on your head!!

The 4 letters remaining, in Cyrillic,
read W el, el, polochka, koppa. W

The two identical outer letters put as W ? I have no idea.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

fernando · 22nd July 2015, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

... The rivets are indeed odd. See another rivet application at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=blade+rivets post #271...

But to my eyes the rivets in that one have the purpose to attach that rectangular adornment to the blade, whereas in the present one they seem to be the actual fixation of the tang to the blade. But i don't know

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 29th July 2015, 08:10 AM

Salaams All ~ Please note the more accurate letters represented as A 5 1 U U A

I puzzle as to the language. Is it an unrelated fact that this weapon is said to have been purchased in Yemen ...is the star shape a red herring since it seems to be part of an elongated tang...or...?

We have a series of letters that look like A 5 1 U U A Not English but Latin or Greek or.... ?

Taking each letter one by one;

A ...Perhaps Not an A but possibly since there is one at each end of the letters some sort of brackets in which the saying is placed possibly a holy incantation thus what appears to be crown shaped A at each end...I pencil in Crown A Shapes..

5 ...not a full 5...the top is missing. Is this a figure 3(Gimmel) in Hebrew ... ? Or is it the much more interesting Zayin in Hebrew...In its cursive form? Which means a number of different concepts/things including the number 7. It also stands for Jesus combined with the Holy Spirit...and interestingly enough a weapon or sword.

I ...see below. As a number its a 6

U U ..each looks like an inside out u As a number it is 9....so we have 9 9

It appears to read from the left A 7 6 9 9 A where the A are crowns? and where there is also a possibility that the fig 7 could be something entirely different !

Note. see http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Gra...yin/zayin.html

see https://www.pinterest.com/pin/167759154844035074/ for more numerical/letter clues.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

8th June 2015, 02:04 PM	#3
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	ODD BUT INCREDIBLE SWORD Or .... are we looking at a Portuguese blade ?... see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...tuguese+swords It occurred to me that the tang looks very old....and compare the Ricasso ... It looks Portuguese. Is it possible that this is originally a Portuguese weapon and a left over after they left Oman in 1650? Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 9th June 2015 at 12:23 PM.

20th July 2015, 06:32 PM	#5
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	The letters appear to read...or are inscribed similar to M 5 1 D D M The rivets are indeed odd. See another rivet application at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=blade+rivets post #271. Salaams Ibrahiim al Balooshi... Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 20th July 2015 at 10:07 PM.

29th July 2015, 08:10 AM	#8
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	What language is this???? Salaams All ~ Please note the more accurate letters represented as A 5 1 U U A I puzzle as to the language. Is it an unrelated fact that this weapon is said to have been purchased in Yemen ...is the star shape a red herring since it seems to be part of an elongated tang...or...? We have a series of letters that look like A 5 1 U U A Not English but Latin or Greek or.... ? Taking each letter one by one; A ...Perhaps Not an A but possibly since there is one at each end of the letters some sort of brackets in which the saying is placed possibly a holy incantation thus what appears to be crown shaped A at each end...I pencil in Crown A Shapes.. 5 ...not a full 5...the top is missing. Is this a figure 3(Gimmel) in Hebrew ... ? Or is it the much more interesting Zayin in Hebrew...In its cursive form? Which means a number of different concepts/things including the number 7. It also stands for Jesus combined with the Holy Spirit...and interestingly enough a weapon or sword. I ...see below. As a number its a 6 U U ..each looks like an inside out u As a number it is 9....so we have 9 9 It appears to read from the left A 7 6 9 9 A where the A are crowns? and where there is also a possibility that the fig 7 could be something entirely different ! Note. see http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Gra...yin/zayin.html see https://www.pinterest.com/pin/167759154844035074/ for more numerical/letter clues. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 29th July 2015 at 12:43 PM.

7th June 2015, 02:03 PM	#2
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	I place again the detail important in considering the nature of the star geometry on this added to sword at Project... The tang is extended and the pommel is added ...therefor, the star design should be seen in that context... Quote"Star of David researchers generally indicate the Non-Jewish Star of David by the name Hexagram. Hexagram is a name invented only in recent centuries; I mean, it is not known for thousands of years how the non-Jewish Stars of David were named. "Hex" is the Greek word that represents the number six, "gram" means form. Even the Christian name for the Shield of David "the Star of David" was invented only in recent centuries. Muslims called the Star of David always the Seal of Solomon, but Seal of Solomon was used both in Judaism and in Islam also as the name of a pentagram. The Indian Star of David is commonly named Yantra".Unquote. Star and Hexagram appear in Islamic tradition and can be seen on Islamic Silver ..from Oman on items I have researched on ladies head dress and broches as part of an in depth appreciation of Omani Silver generally...Both the star and Hex are common in this regard. However, no hex designs are recorded or seen on Omani Swords in the ceremonial style or other Omani Swords as Pommel decoration thus this decoration appears as a one off and unrelated issue. Below I place pictures relevant to tang and Pommel extension and an idea of the type of design on Pommels (which usually don't have any design at all) See also the form of Omani Silver showing stars and the pentagon or Hex design but in the Islamic meaning unrelated to the Jewish style..See the Hexagon decoration on what I recall was a Red Sea variant applied probably in the Yemen to the throat of the blade... For interest. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 7th June 2015 at 03:29 PM.

19th July 2015, 07:55 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Am i missing a couple points here ... or are my eyes tricking me ? : Isn't there one more letter (figure) before the five ones that have been mentioned, close from the tang ... as also a sign that the blade has been longer ? Isn't the particularity of the blade being riveted to the tang also an oddity ?

22nd July 2015, 03:39 PM	#6
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams all... Then again if we look at Cyrillic capitals turning this line upside down M 5 1 D D M and discarding for now the two outer M looking letters ... stay with me and no cheating by standing on your head!! The 4 letters remaining, in Cyrillic, read W el, el, polochka, koppa. W The two identical outer letters put as W ? I have no idea. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi.