KUDI FROM MADURA / USED IN ATJEH ?

asomotif · 5th June 2015, 12:36 AM

Here 2 with more elaborate decorations in the metal ferrule.

A. G. Maisey · 18th June 2015, 12:21 AM

Just a small addition to my post #5, I was feeling a bit off colour when I wrote that post and did not make the effort to clarify something that I should have.

This word "tranchang".

In Javanese and Malay there is no combination of "c+h", the "ch" sound that we know in English is achieved by use of only "c" in these languages, thus "tranchang" should be rendered as "trancang".

In Javanese there is a word "trancang", and this word means "a tray made out of plaited wire" --- this is a very obscure word that only appears in one of my many dictionaries and is unknown to any native speaker of Javanese that I have ever asked.

We also have in Javanese a word: "trantang" which means "having many holes".

It would probably be legitimate to describe the vast bulk of kudis as "kudi trantang", as most kudis do in fact have many holes, however, I have never encountered this usage.

But we cannot describe something that is vaguely kudi-shaped as a "kudi trantang" unless it does have a lot of holes. In short, kudi trantang is a description, it is not a name.

To return to kudi trancang. If a kudi shaped weapon had a wide blade with the grain of the iron clearly showing, it might also be legitimate to describe such a weapon as a "kudi trancang".

In respect of the celurit in Madura. It comes in many forms that can range from pure weapon to a variety of agricultural tools. I've seen displays of this range of forms several times, regrettably I cannot recall any form of Madurese celurit that looks remotely like the item that started this thread. This of course does not mean that the item which started the thread is not a Madurese celurit, but it would seem to indicate that Madurese museum staffs in the late 20th century did not know of this form as Madurese.

5th June 2015, 12:36 AM	#1
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,228	Here 2 with more elaborate decorations in the metal ferrule. Attached Images

18th June 2015, 12:21 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Just a small addition to my post #5, I was feeling a bit off colour when I wrote that post and did not make the effort to clarify something that I should have. This word "tranchang". In Javanese and Malay there is no combination of "c+h", the "ch" sound that we know in English is achieved by use of only "c" in these languages, thus "tranchang" should be rendered as "trancang". In Javanese there is a word "trancang", and this word means "a tray made out of plaited wire" --- this is a very obscure word that only appears in one of my many dictionaries and is unknown to any native speaker of Javanese that I have ever asked. We also have in Javanese a word: "trantang" which means "having many holes". It would probably be legitimate to describe the vast bulk of kudis as "kudi trantang", as most kudis do in fact have many holes, however, I have never encountered this usage. But we cannot describe something that is vaguely kudi-shaped as a "kudi trantang" unless it does have a lot of holes. In short, kudi trantang is a description, it is not a name. To return to kudi trancang. If a kudi shaped weapon had a wide blade with the grain of the iron clearly showing, it might also be legitimate to describe such a weapon as a "kudi trancang". In respect of the celurit in Madura. It comes in many forms that can range from pure weapon to a variety of agricultural tools. I've seen displays of this range of forms several times, regrettably I cannot recall any form of Madurese celurit that looks remotely like the item that started this thread. This of course does not mean that the item which started the thread is not a Madurese celurit, but it would seem to indicate that Madurese museum staffs in the late 20th century did not know of this form as Madurese.