Bichoq? Or something else

Iain · 4th June 2015, 09:53 AM

I would agree that the bolster plate with the four petal motif (a common Berber element found deep into the Sahel) is probably later than the blade. Certainly looks like the decorative elements belong in the North African sphere.

A lovely piece, I really like the blade style.

ariel · 5th June 2015, 05:03 PM

It is Uzbeki Pichok ( P'chak). There were multiple varieties of these knives, from different localities and with different local sub-names indicatiing different purposes. The ones with the upturned point ( forgot its local moniker:-)) were allegedly unsuitable for stabbing and were therefore used ( or classified) as utility knives.
It is rare to find an old one like that. The market is awash in modern productions, partly from Uzbekistan, partly from Ujghur area of China. But this one is a keeper.

Good eye and good buy!

DaveA · 6th June 2015, 03:33 AM

Thanks Ariel.

I know the Soviets confiscated many of these knives in usbekistan in an effort to stamp out local culture, and as a result the old ones are quite scarce. I have two other pichoq, one from Tashkent and one from Chust, good steel, but both more modern in style and unique in their own way. So my eye was tuned! Nevertheless, I have not seen this shape before and so I am glad for the feedback.

I'm fascinated by how this style is found in very similar form and name from N. Africa to the Balkans (bıçak) to Uzbekistan (pichoq) to India ( pichangatti).

Dave A

ariel · 6th June 2015, 12:02 PM

Bichaq and pichok , - simple: Uzbeks are Turks. Same mother language, with some phonetic and pronunciation variations. Turkish Kilij is Klych in Uzbekistan.

But I do not know whether pichangatti is linguistically or ethnically related.

Sancar · 6th June 2015, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Bichaq and pichok , - simple: Uzbeks are Turks. Same mother language, with some phonetic and pronunciation variations. Turkish Kilij is Klych in Uzbekistan.

But I do not know whether pichangatti is linguistically or ethnically related.

Exactly; and since Baburid Mughals were also ethnic Turks, it is propable that pichangetti also have some Turkic origin in its etimology.

ariel · 6th June 2015, 08:19 PM

My only problem with it is that pichangattis were from Coorg and often were carried in ensemble with Ayda Kattis. Both were characteristic of Mappila ( Mopla ), who were not of Turkish, but rather Arab ( Oman? Yemen?) origin.

The pichangatti/pichok/bichaq connection is a very tempting one, but may be a bit more complex than a simple similarity of sounds.

Sancar · 7th June 2015, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

My only problem with it is that pichangattis were from Coorg and often were carried in ensemble with Ayda Kattis. Both were characteristic of Mappila ( Mopla ), who were not of Turkish, but rather Arab ( Oman? Yemen?) origin.

The pichangatti/pichok/bichaq connection is a very tempting one, but may be a bit more complex than a simple similarity of sounds.

Bıçak means "knife" in Turkish language, so it doesn't have to be a certain blade form connection. In the case of "pichangatti", it might only be the word that travelled. There are many such terms in Indian languages that migrated from Turkish and Persian languages.

In the case of Özbek "pichok", there is no confusion. It is the exact same word, just different pronounciation.

6th June 2015, 03:33 AM	#3
DaveA Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 415	Thanks Ariel. I know the Soviets confiscated many of these knives in usbekistan in an effort to stamp out local culture, and as a result the old ones are quite scarce. I have two other pichoq, one from Tashkent and one from Chust, good steel, but both more modern in style and unique in their own way. So my eye was tuned! Nevertheless, I have not seen this shape before and so I am glad for the feedback. I'm fascinated by how this style is found in very similar form and name from N. Africa to the Balkans (bıçak) to Uzbekistan (pichoq) to India ( pichangatti). Dave A Last edited by DaveA; 6th June 2015 at 04:15 AM.

4th June 2015, 09:53 AM	#1
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,708	I would agree that the bolster plate with the four petal motif (a common Berber element found deep into the Sahel) is probably later than the blade. Certainly looks like the decorative elements belong in the North African sphere. A lovely piece, I really like the blade style.

5th June 2015, 05:03 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	It is Uzbeki Pichok ( P'chak). There were multiple varieties of these knives, from different localities and with different local sub-names indicatiing different purposes. The ones with the upturned point ( forgot its local moniker:-)) were allegedly unsuitable for stabbing and were therefore used ( or classified) as utility knives. It is rare to find an old one like that. The market is awash in modern productions, partly from Uzbekistan, partly from Ujghur area of China. But this one is a keeper. Good eye and good buy!

6th June 2015, 12:02 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Bichaq and pichok , - simple: Uzbeks are Turks. Same mother language, with some phonetic and pronunciation variations. Turkish Kilij is Klych in Uzbekistan. But I do not know whether pichangatti is linguistically or ethnically related.

6th June 2015, 08:19 PM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	My only problem with it is that pichangattis were from Coorg and often were carried in ensemble with Ayda Kattis. Both were characteristic of Mappila ( Mopla ), who were not of Turkish, but rather Arab ( Oman? Yemen?) origin. The pichangatti/pichok/bichaq connection is a very tempting one, but may be a bit more complex than a simple similarity of sounds.