Kris/Kalis with straight blade

David · 20th May 2015, 04:45 PM

From what i can see this is most probably an old kris that was refurbished outside of the culture. As Rick has pointed out, the stirrup straps should run under the ferrule and i don't think i have ever seen such thickness in the straps as these. Rick also mentions the leather wrap which i have never seen used on these weapons. The hilt, the ferrule and the band near the pommel all look original, but it looks like someone had them off, fixed up and re-attached. The bands on the sheath look new and not in a Moro style.
As for the gangya, yes Wayne, it is separate, but traditionally the gangya is made from the same billet that the blade is formed from so it is rather unusual for it to be made of a different metal mix. I don't think this is just a matter of more aggressive cleaning on the gangya, this looks like a different metal mix. Given the over all refurbishing of the rest of this piece i think it is likely that this is a later replacement for a missing or broken gangya.

kronckew · 20th May 2015, 05:10 PM

hi rick,

a few over the bolster baca-baca from past forum posts here:

i would think if you are rerplacing them, it'd be easier to install new baca-baca this way rather than disassembling and possibly breaking a grip assembly that is resined in.

kronckew · 20th May 2015, 05:27 PM

looking thru the old stuff here, found the attached sundangs with an asang/baca that is not attached to the grip at all, strengthening frederico's assertion they are there to hold the ganja onto the blade and not the blade to the grip.

kronckew · 20th May 2015, 05:53 PM

'nother grip with the baca/asang outside the wrap. from off-forum. found another on the malay world ref. site we list.

if feasible, i may re-wrap the grip with some black braided cord i have to replace the leather. those shiny brass scabbard bands look out of place too.

would someone trying to heat the tang to melt the resin possibly discolour the ganja a bit?

David · 21st May 2015, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

looking thru the old stuff here, found the attached sundangs with an asang/baca that is not attached to the grip at all, strengthening frederico's assertion they are there to hold the ganja onto the blade and not the blade to the grip.

Wayne, these blades that you have posted on this post are NOT Moro blades. They are modern creations out of Jawa that mimic the Moro (i am not sure i would even call them Indonesian sundangs. They are more like modern repos in my estimate). The reason the asang-asang do not attach to the hilt in these cases is either because they didn't know any better when they were producing these or they found it too much trouble or too difficult to do it the right way. The asang-asang is most definitely intended to hold the hilt to the blade.
You have certain have made you case for asang-asang that travel over the ferrule on traditional Moro blades. However, do note that in each of the examples you posted the strap is fairly flush with the ferrule. On your example this is not the case so i would still stand by my suggestion that this was probably done outside the culture by a non-Moro, especially when you consider the out of place leather wrap. I believe your parts are mostly genuine (hilt, pommel band, ferrule, blade, sheath), but that the refurbishing was done somewhere else in a somewhat untraditional manner.

Sajen · 21st May 2015, 05:18 PM

Agree with all what David explained very well.

kronckew · 21st May 2015, 09:03 PM

OK, accepted. just wanted to play devil's advocate & eliminate any confusion. too bad we may never know who 'repaired it or where. one of the evils of ebay is lack of provenance from dealers who have no real interest in the items they flog. anyhow, it was relatively cheap. (those shiny brass scabbard bands really do irritate me and will disappear, the leather less so, but...they too shall pass) maybe rattan on the scabbard and black heavy string on the grip? do they wax it or lacquer it?

Sajen · 21st May 2015, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

OK, accepted. just wanted to play devil's advocate & eliminate any confusion. too bad we may never know who 'repaired it or where. one of the evils of ebay is lack of provinance from dealers who have no real interest in the items they flog. anyhow, it was relatively cheap. (those shiney brass scabbard bands really do irritate me and will disappear, the leather less so, but...they too shall pass) maybe rattan on the scabdard and black heavy string on the grip? do they wax it or laquer it?

Don't be disappointed Wayne, I think this kris is very nice and can be easily restored. The gangya from different metal is very nice and unique. Simple brass bands at the scabbard will let look it much better. The leather can be replaced by natural fibre and the upper silver band can be easily attached with silver wire. The kris will look much better and like original.

Regards,
Detlef

20th May 2015, 05:10 PM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,253	hi rick, a few over the bolster baca-baca from past forum posts here: i would think if you are rerplacing them, it'd be easier to install new baca-baca this way rather than disassembling and possibly breaking a grip assembly that is resined in. Attached Images

20th May 2015, 05:27 PM	#3
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,253	looking thru the old stuff here, found the attached sundangs with an asang/baca that is not attached to the grip at all, strengthening frederico's assertion they are there to hold the ganja onto the blade and not the blade to the grip. Attached Images

20th May 2015, 05:53 PM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,253	'nother grip with the baca/asang outside the wrap. from off-forum. found another on the malay world ref. site we list. if feasible, i may re-wrap the grip with some black braided cord i have to replace the leather. those shiny brass scabbard bands look out of place too. would someone trying to heat the tang to melt the resin possibly discolour the ganja a bit? Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 20th May 2015 at 11:18 PM.

20th May 2015, 04:45 PM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,241	From what i can see this is most probably an old kris that was refurbished outside of the culture. As Rick has pointed out, the stirrup straps should run under the ferrule and i don't think i have ever seen such thickness in the straps as these. Rick also mentions the leather wrap which i have never seen used on these weapons. The hilt, the ferrule and the band near the pommel all look original, but it looks like someone had them off, fixed up and re-attached. The bands on the sheath look new and not in a Moro style. As for the gangya, yes Wayne, it is separate, but traditionally the gangya is made from the same billet that the blade is formed from so it is rather unusual for it to be made of a different metal mix. I don't think this is just a matter of more aggressive cleaning on the gangya, this looks like a different metal mix. Given the over all refurbishing of the rest of this piece i think it is likely that this is a later replacement for a missing or broken gangya.

21st May 2015, 05:18 PM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,360	Agree with all what David explained very well.

21st May 2015, 09:03 PM	#7
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,253	OK, accepted. just wanted to play devil's advocate & eliminate any confusion. too bad we may never know who 'repaired it or where. one of the evils of ebay is lack of provenance from dealers who have no real interest in the items they flog. anyhow, it was relatively cheap. (those shiny brass scabbard bands really do irritate me and will disappear, the leather less so, but...they too shall pass) maybe rattan on the scabbard and black heavy string on the grip? do they wax it or lacquer it?